So much for the "Swedish way"!

[OnMyWay]

On 6/5/2020 at 6:42 AM, Mike J said:

Try clicking the "Browse" button at the top.  Under U.S., click on "States".   Lots of interesting data they have collected.

I actually just googled "population demographics Florida" and this site was top of the list.

 

I found this actual census site and just started looking through it.  It must be 2010 census data.  It has Florida at 20 % over 65 and the U.S. average at 16%, which is higher than I expected.

[Jollygoodfellow]

3 hours ago, OnMyWay said:

Does anyone know if they count the deaths differently in other countries?

In the good old days they counted the deaths as just plain dead.

[earthdome]

This is being handled exactly opposite of how it should be done. The elderly and those with compromised health should be quarantined. Then encourage all those healthy individuals between 18 and 50 to have a big party. Not enough of those individuals will require hospitalization to overwhelm  health care and then in 2-4 weeks you might reach herd immunity.

[adrian canuck]

20 hours ago, earthdome said:

This is being handled exactly opposite of how it should be done. The elderly and those with compromised health should be quarantined. Then encourage all those healthy individuals between 18 and 50 to have a big party. Not enough of those individuals will require hospitalization to overwhelm  health care and then in 2-4 weeks you might reach herd immunity.

Agree 100%. Bunch of BS the way the world jumped on the "Oh No" wagon

If you're healthy, no pre-existing condtions, carry on as normal.

Locking down the majority to protect the minority is beyond stupid.

[hk blues]

15 hours ago, adrian canuck said:

If you're healthy, no pre-existing condtions, carry on as normal.

 

Countless of such people have died of the virus.  

[OnMyWay]

4 hours ago, hk blues said:

Countless of such people have died of the virus.  

Countless?  Where can you find those stats?  I found a good one table once that showed age and comorbidity of each death, but it might have been only one country and I can't find it now.

In any cases, younger people with no comorbidity dying of COVID is rare.  They die of many other things too.

I think the info below is only New York.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/

Under 65-year-old (0.09% CMR to date)

85.9% of the population (7,214,525 people out of 8,398,748) in New York City is under 65 years old according to the US Census Bureau, which indicates the percent of persons 65 years old and over in New York City as being 14.1% [source].

We don't know what percentage of the population in this age group has an underlying condition, so at this time we are not able to accurately estimate the fatality rate for the under 65 years old and healthy.

But we can calculate it for the entire population under 65 years old (both healthy and unhealthy): with 6,188 deaths (26% of the total deaths in all age groups) occurring in this age group, of which 5,498 deaths (89%) in patients with a known underlying condition, the crude mortality rate to date will correspond to 6,188 / 7,214,525 = 0.09% CMR, or 86 deaths per 100,000 population (compared to 0.28% and 279 deaths per 100,000 for the general population).

So far there has been 1 death every 1,166 people under 65 years old (compared to 1 death every 358 people in the general population). And 89% of the times, the person who died had one or more underlying medical conditions.

NOTE: We are gathering and analyzing additional data in order to provide more estimates by age group.

 

[GeoffH]

The New Zealand government have officially declared the country Covid-19 free and internal restrictions have been stopped (international travel restrictions and incoming quarantine remains so that the country can stay Covid-19 free).   They can live their normal lives until a vaccine is developed.

 

That seems preferable to Swedens method to me; no lockdown, no social distancing, schools and work places open and all that.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/08/new-zealand-abandons-covid-19-restrictions-after-nation-declared-no-cases

 

 

[adrian canuck]

8 hours ago, hk blues said:

Countless of such people have died of the virus.  

Those who are scared of C-19 should be much more fearful of any of the following, numbers much higher

 

Seasonal Flu - 350,000 to 525,000

C-19 - estimate 620,000

Where was all the uproar over something that comes back year after year ?

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-death

Edited June 9, 2020 by adrian canuck

[Mike J]

9 hours ago, adrian canuck said:

Those who are scared of C-19 should be much more fearful of any of the following, numbers much higher

 

Seasonal Flu - 350,000 to 525,000

C-19 - estimate 620,000

Where was all the uproar over something that comes back year after year ?

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-death

Your comparisons are not completely relevant.  The estimate of 620,000 is WITH an almost worldwide lock down and quarantine, we can only guess what the number would have been without quarantine.   A recent study estimates that the quarantine lock downs saved millions of lives.   

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52968523

Spoiler

 

Lockdowns have saved more than three million lives from coronavirus in Europe, a study estimates.

The team at Imperial College London said the "death toll would have been huge" without lockdown.

But they warned that only a small proportion of people had been infected and we were still only "at the beginning of the pandemic".

Another study argued global lockdowns had "saved more lives, in a shorter period of time, than ever before".

The Imperial study assessed the impact of restrictions in 11 European countries - Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, Norway, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and the UK - up to the beginning of May.

By that time, around 130,000 people had died from coronavirus in those countries.

The researchers used disease modelling to predict how many deaths there would have been if lockdown had not happened. And the work comes from the same group that guided the UK's decision to go into lockdown.

UK changes course amid death toll fears
They estimated 3.2 million people would have died by 4 May if not for measures such as closing businesses and telling people to stay at home.

That meant lockdown saved around 3.1 million lives, including 470,000 in the UK, 690,000 in France and 630,000 in Italy, the report in the journal Nature shows.

"Lockdown averted millions of deaths, those deaths would have been a tragedy," said Dr Seth Flaxman, from Imperial.

 

 

The graph is kind of like comparing apples to oranges, it doesn't really make sense.  It is for "low income" countries so there is a prevalence of illness and deaths in these countries that are either not seen or more easily treated in more advanced countries.  Also the deaths listed can to a large degree be reduced if a person (who has the monetary means) makes intelligent life style choices.  Proper diet, not smoking, limit alcohol, protected sex, get exercise, etc.  

[Tommy T.]

I am not replying to any specific post here, just a few general comments...

I see the Spanish flu pandemic as sort of a guide to what could have happened with this latest scourge. It appears that some people have learned from this history and others have not? This latest virus kills some, attacks others with limited effect and spares vast numbers altogether...right? I am now all for those who wish to take the risk to go out, mingle with the contagious ones, get sick and die themselves or bring it on home to infect their friends and relatives who may be at greater risk... Go ahead and step right up. No sympathies from me - you make your own choice for yourself and those close to you... But my pities to those infected but not by their own choice.

As I have mentioned before, my thinking is that the lockdowns and quarantines have probably helped slow or control the spread of the virus. Look at New Zealand... I think these were necessary to enact to protect those too dumb to quarantine or wear masks or take other precautions on their own... Now that there is a bit more knowledge and current history about this virus, many, if not most, at risk people seem to be taking precautions. I have seen videos and read accounts from some younger people who got very sick and listened to their cautionary tales addressed to their peers. Before they were sick, many, too, were cavalier about it. But once sick with this, they figured it out.

When shopping at Wilcon and Citi Hardware recently, I would say about one third of people were wearing masks not covering their noses, wearing masks down below their chin or simply not wearing them at all. I was disgusted when one employee at Citi walked behind L and I snorting and blowing his nose into a rag then wiping his nose afterward with his hand and sleeve, then leaving his mask down... Some people just don't get it. Oh... and a big sign at the entrance to Citi stated, among other cautions, that only 20 customers were permitted inside at a time. Hahahaha! There were more than that just shuffling along in the check-out line! A few dozen more wandering around the store. We had more than 5 people all crowding around us as they checked some lights for us. L and I simply walked away and made a bit of a subtle show about it. The others noticed and then spread out. They knew better but either forgot or didn't really care... Oh, well.

Personally, I had what was known as the London Grippe (some sort of nasty flu) back in the early 70's while travelling in Europe. I thought I was going to die - it was horrible. I had another really nasty case of flu about 30 years ago. It knocked me flat on my back for weeks. I developed pneumonia and it took the better part of a month for everything to clear up. I never want to get even close to that sick again. I was helpless, listless, coughing, aching, feverish, not sleeping, difficult breathing...

There is, indeed, a lot of media coverage annually about various flu outbreaks - contrary to what some members seem to think? I believe, however, that there is less hype about it because it has become rather routine - oh well, another 50,000 people died from flu last month?...no big deal.

So I get a flu shot every year and have done so ever since that last bout 30 years past. My feeling is, why take the risk if it can be diverted? And I will get any vaccine offered for this latest virus and/or continue to self-protect myself, my girl and my step-daughter.

Okay... that's my morning virus rant. Sure... I know many will think I overreact and am totally wrong? But, I feel better now.