Global Anger Grows Over George Floyd's Death

[intrepid]

Here's another video with similar thoughts to Candace Owens.      Shorter and also worth a watch.

 https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=291664548522788

 

[intrepid]

Something else to consider is two of the officers charged were rookies with less than a week on the job!

 

https://fox6now.com/2020/06/05/2-officers-involved-in-george-floyd-death-were-rookies-attorney-says-1-was-on-his-4th-day/

Edited June 7, 2020 by intrepid

[OnMyWay]

46 minutes ago, intrepid said:

Something else to consider is two of the officers charged were rookies with less than a week on the job!

I didn't know that.  No wonder they were reluctant to intervene.

[OnMyWay]

1 hour ago, intrepid said:

Here's another video with similar thoughts to Candace Owens.      Shorter and also worth a watch.

 https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=291664548522788

 

I agree with where he went at the end.  It all boils down to good vs. evil.  Some cops are evil.  Some black men are evil.  Some teachers are evil.  Etc., etc.    Evil begets evil.  Good begets good.  Live a good life and you will attract good people.

[Tukaram (Tim)]

We need to demilitarize the police. They are no longer about 'protect and serve'. The civilians are now seen as an enemy that needs to be controlled.  I studied criminal justice and law, I rode with police for a couple years, I worked in the jails... what we have now is unacceptable.  

[intrepid]

2 hours ago, OnMyWay said:

I didn't know that.  No wonder they were reluctant to intervene.

Correct and I suspect at the trial if it does go that far they will not be convicted since they were still considered trainees.  Of course the masses will not hear this or will not care and continue to demand "justice".  Meaning convicted of the harshest crime they could impose.  Like all cases there is so much more to a story than what is revealed until the trial.  Even the videos do not show everything in all cases.  Remember the 2014 case, "Hands Up Don't Shoot", Michael Brown.  A grand jury was called and given extensive evidence from the St. Louis County Prosecutor. On November 24, 2014, the prosecutor announced the St. Louis County grand jury had decided not to indict Wilson. On March 4, 2015, the U.S. Department of Justice reported the conclusion of its own investigation and cleared Wilson of civil rights violations in the shooting. It found forensic evidence supported the officer's account, that witnesses who corroborated the officer's account were credible, and that witnesses who had incriminated him were not credible, with some admitting they had not directly seen the events.[12][13] The U.S. Department of Justice concluded that Wilson shot Brown in self-defense.  What do you think Wilson's life is like now?  How many people today if asked about that case would remember that Wilson was never indicted?  Now I am not saying they are not bad cops, there are.  In the 35 years I was a LEO our department grew from 35 members to over 350.  That is between 1980-2015.  During those years we had some of the strictest hiring rules and background investigations.  Still some bad ones made it through and did stupid things and were given the option to resign or be fired.  I do not know the exact number but a pretty close guess would be ~50.  None of these cases were racial.  There were some racial complaints made and I can assure you like any other complaint made against an officer, the admin. staff would usually take the word of the accuser and investigate the complaint until all evidence and leads were exhausted.  Also during defensive training courses in the academy or annual in service, the instructors were always very firm in their teachings and demonstration of moves, holds, and take downs.  After any of these incidents that made national news, some holds and take downs would be modified or dropped from or general orders.  I will also add that I never remember being taught, or even mentioned, when you encounter a person of a specific race you do it this way or that.  As a matter of fact, the instructors were usually of mixed races.  Getting long winded so I will conclude by admitting there are some bad apples in law enforcement.  I don't know the percentage but would bet it is higher than any other profession. 

Also wanted to add that becoming a LEO is no easy task and unlike many jobs you do not learn it in 2-4 weeks.  Most rookie  officers are still asking older officers or supervisors questions and procedures up to almost two years on the job.  It seems like two years is the point the average officer starts to feel comfortable handling most  incidents without any supervision.  But still there are some incidents you may only encounter once every 3-5 years.  A lot to take in and learn.

[scott h]

2 hours ago, Tukaram (Tim) said:

We need to demilitarize the police.

I am getting to the point where I would support a moratorium on hiring white police officers. Let no-one but people of color patrol the streets. I will wager right now that the same number of bad apples will be hired.

[Gator]

1 hour ago, intrepid said:

........  Also during defensive training courses in the academy or annual in service, the instructors were always very firm in their teachings and demonstration of moves, holds, and take downs.  

Also wanted to add that becoming a LEO is no easy task and unlike many jobs you do not learn it in 2-4 weeks.  Most rookie  officers are still asking older officers or supervisors questions and procedures up to almost two years on the job.  ..........A lot to take in and learn.

From early 92 until late 98 I was also a LEO in Florida. Along with another officer I was hired on grant money to work as a Traffic Homicide Investigator and for DUI enforcement. Still had to go thru training the same as any Deputy Sheriff.....4 months in an academy and then 14 weeks with FTO’s (Field Training Officers). Then to get certified by Florida for doing what I hired for, that was followed by: 3 months of Advanced Traffic Crash Investigation (general, CMV, pedestrian and MTCY crashes), Traffic Accident Reconstruction training (TARO Certified), DUI recognition/law/breathalyzer certification, and, as a bonus (lol), one week of Advanced Riding Skills for Police Motorcycle Officers Followed by Advanced Tactical and Survival Skills for Police Motorcycle Officers from IPTM (Institute of Police Technology and Management), University of North Florida, Jacksonville.

So all in almost a year of training before being cut loose. In addition to my primary work I also answered call for service, but mostly as a back up and not as the primary officer (I wasn’t supposed to get tied up all night on a domestic dispute or some other type of call, though that did occasionally happen). After my first year I was asked to and subsequently trained as an FTO for the explicit purpose of training new recruits on basic traffic crash investigations and securing the scene at major crashes. 

Intrepid - remember the during DT (Defensive Tactics) training the “Use of Force Continuum”? For the non LEO’s reading this - its extensive training regarding not only the escalation of force an officer is allowed to use, BUT the de-escalation of force. 

What I don’t understand in the Floyd case is why the officer continued to keep him pinned to the ground when the threat was contained.....he was already handcuffed.....and, rookies or not, there were four officers there. Why didn’t they put him the back of a patrol car? Even if the city has separate transport units, it’s not uncommon (and usually safer) to contain a subject in a patrol car until the transport unit arrives. 

Ok, so there four officers there. If two were fresh recruits that implies that the other two were FTO’s (so also likely that 2 patrol units were there too). FTO’s are supposed to be experienced officers, well trained and held to even higher standard then their fellow officers......they are supposed to be mentors for junior officers and the “go to” officers when questions arise.  

Something with the whole event bothers me, in that at least 2 officers were (or should have been) highly trained and one of those highly trained officers essentially murdered someone. It leaves me with more questions then answers; Was any ulterior motive behind the killing?.....to try to keep President from getting reelected? To start a race war? Simply because they know the guy was a bad apple, they (or he the officer) was frustrated at the system’s failing to keep someone like him off the street and he decided to take the law into his own hands? I’m sure we will never the real reason why it happened or if there Was any other motive behind it. 

And let me explicitly state that I don’t condone what happened. It’s a very sad thing that that a**h*le just made the jobs of tens of thousands of officers that much more difficult. How man other officers will pull back and be afraid of doing their jobs out of fear of becoming a scapegoat, or the possibility of setting off a riot because because they used what could later be interpreted (falsely i would hope) as “excessive force”? 

Rant over - my apologies for the long post

Edited June 7, 2020 by Gator
Typos

[Gator]

I don’t know who these guys are - “The Hodge Twins”. By coincidence a friend just sent me this video. No idea if its supposed to be satirical or serious, but even so I’m sure it’ll never be publicized by the left wing media and I’m also sure they will get quite a bit of negative feedback by BLM. It doesn’t touch directly on the Floyd debacle, but on the ensuing response, riots and BLM’s role it in. Worth watching as they bring up many valid points.

 

 

 

[intrepid]

6 minutes ago, Gator said:

From early 92 until late 98 I was also a LEO in Florida. Along with another officer I was hired on grant money to work as a Traffic Homicide Investigator and for DUI enforcement. Still had to go thru trading the same as any Deputy Sheriff.....4 months in an academy and then 14 weeks with FTO’s (Field Training Officers). Then to get certified by Florida for doing what I hired for that was followed by: 3 months of Advanced Traffic Crash Investigation (general, CMV, pedestrian and MTCY crashes), Traffic Accident Reconstruction training (TARO Certified), DUI recognition/law/breathalyzer certification, and, as a bonus (lol), Advanced Riding Skills for Police Motorcycle Officers Followed by Advanced Tactical and Survival Skills for Police Motorcycle Officers from IPTM (Institute of Police Technology and Management), University of North Florida, Jacksonville. So all in almost a year of training before being cut loose. In addition to my primary workI also answered call for service, but mostly as a back up and not as the primary officer (I wasn’t supposed to get tied up all night on a domestic dispute of some other type of call, though that did occasionally happen). After my first year I was trained asked to and subsequently trained as an FTO for the explicit purpose of training new recruits on basic traffic crash investigations and securing the scene at major crashes. 

Intrepid - remember the during DT (Defensive Tactics) training the “Use of Force Continuum”? For the non LEO’s reading this - its extensive training regarding not only the escalation of force an officer is allowed to use, but the de-escalation of force. 

What I don’t understand in the Floyd case is why the officer continued to keep him pinned to the ground when the threat was contained.....he was already handcuffed.....and, rookies or not, there were four officers there. Why didn’t put him the back of a patrol car? Even if the city has separate transport units, it’s not uncommon (and usually safer) to contain a subject in a patrol car until the transport unit arrives. 

Ok, so there four officers there. If two were fresh recruits that implies that the other two were FTO’s (so also likely that 2 patrol units were there too). FTO’s are supposed to be experienced officers, well trained and held to even higher standard then their fellow officers......they are supposed to be mentors for junior officers and the “go to” officers when questions arise.  

Something with the whole event bothers me, in that at least 2 officers were (or should have been) highly trained and one of those highly trained officers essentially murdered someone. It leaves me with more questions then answers; Was any ulterior motive behind the killing?.....to try to keep President from getting reelected? To start a race war? Simply because they know the guy was a bad apple, they (or he the officer) was frustrated at the system’s failing to keep someone like him off the street and he decided to take the law into his own hands? I’m sure we will never the real reason why it happened or if there Was any other motive behind it. 

And let me explicitly state that I don’t condone what happened. It’s a very sad thing that that a**h*le just made the jobs of tens of thousands of officers that much more difficult. How man other officers will pull back and be afraid of doing their jobs out of fear of becoming a scapegoat, or the possibility of setting off a riot because because they used what could later be interpreted (falsely i would hope) as “excessive force”? 

I remember when all those new "use of force" rules/policies came into effect and are still part of most if not all departments.  And for sure any department that is accredited.  Although I always look for a motive, I am not one to believe in conspiracy theories.  Also one of my faults is I always believe in the best of humanity and trust people until I have proof not to.  Then the game is on.  I cannot answer for sure the question you have as do I and many others.  As to why the officer/s held Floyd on the ground for so long, I think I read they had attempted to get him into the patrol unit only he became enraged and resisted.  It was at that point, I think the officer suspected drugs and or a medical condition and called for an ambulance.  I think if he was combative and a threat to himself or others they would have been justified in holding him down until he calmed down.  However, once he was calm and also stated he was having trouble breathing, I think most officers would set him up to a more relaxed position until the ambulance arrived.  Its a hard call to make for some.  Have you ever had a suspect escape your custody.  I have, two times and both were handcuffed.  One was a juvenile who was committed to "Juvie" by the court and was captured more than two months later.  Got my handcuffs back on that one.  The other was an adult I had arrested and escaped custody only to be caught almost a year later halfway across the country.  My handcuffs were returned in pieces.  Both incidents I was by myself with the suspect handcuffed behind their back.  The adult was almost twice my size and it was a heck of a long struggle.  Somehow while in the back seat of my screened car he was able to get the cuffs under his legs to the front side and lay on his back and kicked the door window.  The glass did not break but the whole frame of the rear door was bend out far enough that he reached the outside door handle and opened the door.  I was able to tackle him but just could not hold him down.  It was a minor domestic assault during the OJ case and although I would have liked to have shot him, I did not feel justified.  He did not assault me, just total resist and wore me out.  Pepper spray had just came on the scene and I had it in the car but not on my belt at that time.