Europe is opening up, but nowhere else (?)

[peterfe]

Just for "fun" (not that I'm going anywhere) I had a look at where I currently could and could not go as a UK citizen. There's a huge difference between Europe (both EU and non-EU) and the rest of the world. I can just walk in to lots of European countries, from Germany to Albania. But then I checked on some typical tourist destinations in other parts of the world - Morocco, Egypt, Maldives, etc. - no chance, mate! Not to mention South-East Asia!

So the question is: Is Europe opening up too soon, or are the other countries being too careful? (Some of them maybe need tourists even more than Southern European countries). As for when the Philippines might let tourists in, I can't see any sign at all of letting in tourists in the other Asian countries I looked at. 

[hk blues]

41 minutes ago, peterfe said:

Just for "fun" (not that I'm going anywhere) I had a look at where I currently could and could not go as a UK citizen. There's a huge difference between Europe (both EU and non-EU) and the rest of the world. I can just walk in to lots of European countries, from Germany to Albania. But then I checked on some typical tourist destinations in other parts of the world - Morocco, Egypt, Maldives, etc. - no chance, mate! Not to mention South-East Asia!

So the question is: Is Europe opening up too soon, or are the other countries being too careful? (Some of them maybe need tourists even more than Southern European countries). As for when the Philippines might let tourists in, I can't see any sign at all of letting in tourists in the other Asian countries I looked at. 

People living in England can return from 75 countries without having to quarantine but can only enter 25 of them without having to quarantine on arrival.  Still a fair choice compared to here though.

[scott h]

4 hours ago, peterfe said:

or are the other countries being too careful?

I think your on to something. Europe and North America  for the most part have health care systems that can handle outbreaks to a certain extent. Using the Phil for example, if you got a bunch of 1st world tourists here and they got the virus, there is no way that they could reserve medical care that they are used to. 

[peterfe]

10 hours ago, scott h said:

I think your on to something. Europe and North America  for the most part have health care systems that can handle outbreaks to a certain extent. Using the Phil for example, if you got a bunch of 1st world tourists here and they got the virus, there is no way that they could reserve medical care that they are used to. 

Yes, I think that's part of it. But there's also the "neighbour effect". Some countries in Europe probably opened up just because other European countries were opening, not because they were really ready. Ukraine is one of the poorest countries in Europe, almost certainly has worse health care than the richest Asian countries, and has worse Covid-19 figures than the Philippines, but they've opened their borders. While over in this part of the world, an advanced country like Singapore is not allowing in short-term visitors from any country. Not even countries with very good Covid-19 figures, like New Zealand. 

So the "neighbour effect" will mean that when we see other SE Asian countries opening up, we can expect the Philippines to follow suit. Don't ask me when that will be...

[GeoffH]

5 hours ago, peterfe said:

So the "neighbour effect" will mean that when we see other SE Asian countries opening up, we can expect the Philippines to follow suit. Don't ask me when that will be...

I think it will be a while before borders in Asia start to open up again, even countries that have have relative success are struggling with hot spot and potential second wave issues.  China, South Korea and more seriously Victoria, Australia (where I am) are all struggling to contain outbreaks.

There are a few small pacific nations that rely to a large extent upon tourism that are pushing to open borders to certain low covid countries.

Edited July 7, 2020 by GeoffH

[peterfe]

20 hours ago, GeoffH said:

China, South Korea and more seriously Victoria, Australia (where I am) are all struggling to contain outbreaks.

Let's hope things soon get back to (new) normal where you are. 

Some of the lesser-known European countries are finding they opened up too soon or too much. Cases were going down nicely in Serbia but have now shot up again. Looking around the world, it's obvious that caution is the norm and Europe is the exception. Those foreigners here in the Philippines who are frustrated and maybe annoyed with the government because they can't leave and come back or have friends in other countries visit them should remember that it would be just the same in almost any other country outside Europe.    

[peterfe]

There's now a glimmer of hope for those Brits and others foolish enough to want to have a package holiday in this part of the world during a pandemic. The two main tourist hot-spots, Bali and Southern Thailand, both have tentative plans for accepting package tours later this year. Subject to restrictions of course - the tourists may have to stay in the resort and not visit other parts of the country. Too bad if that gwapa Thai chick you've been writing to for months lives in the far north! Anyway, it doesn't sound like a load of fun for solo travellers - sit at a table by yourself every day, not supposed to chat to the other tourists.

So although there have been far fewer package tours to the Philippines than to Bali and Thailand (at least for Westerners, but maybe a lot for Koreans and other SE Asians), there might be a similar first stage here when the Philippines finally decides to open up. Real tourists will be the priority, not those of us who have "tourist" written on our ACR card and haven't seen our girl friend for months   

[GeoffH]

2 hours ago, peterfe said:

Real tourists will be the priority, not those of us who have "tourist" written on our ACR card and haven't seen our girl friend for months   

I'm not optimistic that those of us on tourist visas will be getting back into the Philippines any time soon, we're a long way down the pecking order behind those 'package tourists' you mention and SRRV holders and others.  I suspect we won't be getting back in before a vaccine is available and the best estimate for that is 'some time next year' :(

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by GeoffH

[peterfe]

From the National Geographic:

For the COVID-19 vaccine, the ideal candidate would be able to establish immunity in at least 70 percent of the population, including the elderly, as outlined in April by the World Health Organization (WHO). On June 28, Anthony Fauci, director of the U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said that he, too, would settle for a 70 to 75 percent effective vaccine.

But if it only works for 7 out of 10 people, does that mean we're going to be wearing masks and keeping 1-2 metres away from others for ever?  

[GeoffH]

12 minutes ago, peterfe said:

From the National Geographic:

But if it only works for 7 out of 10 people, does that mean we're going to be wearing masks and keeping 1-2 metres away from others for ever?  

Not really, the flu vaccine is regarded as being only about 65% effective (it varies from flu season to flu season, some years are as high as 90% and other years are as low as 50% in places).  It isn't a situation where you either catch the virus or you don't, the majority of people who've had the flu vaccine and then catch the virus experience milder symptoms and a shorter illness (unless you've got serious underlying immune system issues).

So the idea with Covid is even if you're in the unlucky 3 out of 10 you will be much less likely to have a serious or critical infection.

ie to say, even if it doesn't stop you from catching it, it will stop you from getting really sick (well that's what the information I've read says anyway).

There is also the issue that a number of vaccines will likely become available around the same time and it will be a while before it becomes known which ones have the best efficacy (just because a vaccine works and it safe doesn't mean that a different one might not work better, it might last longer or only need one jab not two or it might induce a higher anti-body response or it might protect a higher percentage of people etc).  There are at least two rabies vaccines for example and the one I chose I only chose after doing quite some reading (and some of it was pretty heavy reading).

Edited July 11, 2020 by GeoffH