Hats off to China!

[peterfe]

I'm not sure whether politics are supposed to be discussed on this forum, and unfortunately this issue may be difficult to discuss without being politicised, but anyway... I can't help thinking that if every country had copied exactly, or as well as they could, what the Chinese did in Wuhan and other cities, the world wouldn't be in its present coronamess. But of course other countries wouldn't, and didn't, mostly because of the p-word... OK, some countries are poor and wouldn't have the resources, but there are plenty of rich countries that could have copied China.

If I spoke Chinese and was given the choice of spending this pandemic in China or the US, I'm in no doubt at all which country I'd choose. Even without a word of Chinese, I'd probably choose China, to be 99.9% safe from Covid-19.

[scott h]

18 minutes ago, peterfe said:

but there are plenty of rich countries that could have copied China.

Rich or poor. There are only a few countries around that their government systems will allow them to do what china did. North Korea, cuba, viet nam and maybe Myanmar with their military junta. There are some U tube vids that show how they handled it in Wuhan. The vids show government officials dragging "patients" out of their homes. 

The poor "democratic" countries couldn't do it china's way for fear of condemnation from the west and fear of sanctions. Plus civil revolt. 

I cant speak for Britain but i know that the US would never get away with china's method.

IMO its not really discussing politics so much as just stating facts on the ground  

[Tommy T.]

39 minutes ago, peterfe said:

I'm not sure whether politics are supposed to be discussed on this forum, and unfortunately this issue may be difficult to discuss without being politicised, but anyway... I can't help thinking that if every country had copied exactly, or as well as they could, what the Chinese did in Wuhan and other cities, the world wouldn't be in its present coronamess. But of course other countries wouldn't, and didn't, mostly because of the p-word... OK, some countries are poor and wouldn't have the resources, but there are plenty of rich countries that could have copied China.

If I spoke Chinese and was given the choice of spending this pandemic in China or the US, I'm in no doubt at all which country I'd choose. Even without a word of Chinese, I'd probably choose China, to be 99.9% safe from Covid-19.

I see your point, Peter, but I don't buy it.

What you see "working" has only happened in totally authoritarian regimes - police states. I can't imagine that being possible, as Scott just mentioned, in "free" countries like USA, Canada...etc.... There would be revolts about freedom and the rest. It could easily be abused.

However, I notice that, here in Philippines, at least in Davao City and parts of Manila, and, unfortunately all of Cebu?, that the officials in charge seem to be practicing small versions of that same quarantine procedure - maybe only barangays or even a few city blocks being cordoned off, rather than entire cities or regions generally? I am no expert at all, but my observations seem to indicate that these processes may work?

Here in Davao, there is a particular barangay where there has been a recent outbreak - mostly family or drinking buddies spreading it among themselves - something like 15-20 people infected? I don't remember now.... Well, the city locked that area down tight to stem the spread of the virus. That seems to be working, at least somewhat. It is not so draconian as China or N Korea, etc., but it is still strict on a local level. Perhaps this is a way to deal with it in the longer term for a while? 

[peterfe]

50 minutes ago, scott h said:

There are some U tube vids that show how they handled it in Wuhan. The vids show government officials dragging "patients" out of their homes. 

Just because you see something on YouTube doesn't prove that that was how "they (always) did it". Then you have to weigh up "a few/many people being dragged from their homes" against all the lives that were saved in China compared to many other countries.

[Old55]

Peter, I say this respectfully and kindly. Very little we know coming from ccp controlled China is not been spun or is outright lies. Especially  in regards to the virus from Wuhan. Don't be duped by ccp propaganda.

[scott h]

11 minutes ago, peterfe said:

Just because you see something on YouTube doesn't prove that that was how "they (always) did it".

Very true, but i think you will concede that china is an authoritarian state. The party says go, a person goes. Don't get me wrong, there are many admirable traits to the Chinese culture and how they have adjusted "communism" to fit into a "capitalist's" world. I am just saying those methods would not be well received in the west.

Just look at the reaction here in the Phil when the government said they would remove positive and suspected positive people to isolation centers. In my view, due to the overcrowding of poor homes here the best move. But the editorial pages were full of skreams of "martial law"  

[scott h]

29 minutes ago, peterfe said:

ust because you see something on YouTube doesn't prove that that was how "they (always) did it".

Oh btw, the u tube channel i saw them on is not an anti Chinese government channel. It is pro, especially pro Chinese military, if you want the addy send me a pm and ill give it to you

[Old55]

I have to add this. I'm unable to be objective as I have very close dear friends who are Hong Kong Chinese. 

Peter I think you're a good person and enjoy what you have to share here please don't take my opinion as a personal attack or the like. 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Old55

[GeoffH]

3 hours ago, scott h said:

 

The poor "democratic" countries couldn't do it china's way for fear of condemnation from the west and fear of sanctions. Plus civil revolt. 

I cant speak for Britain but i know that the US would never get away with china's method.

 

 

 

The USA citizenry seems (as an outsider) to be a lot more worried about personal freedoms and a lot less worried about Covid than what I'm seeing in Australia and I believe you when you say that it wouldn't fly in the US but not all western countries are the same.   Here Covid is seen as a national emergency which justifies the temporary suspension of some rights and it is being treated as and regarded as 'the war upon Covid'.

eg the methods used in China aren't terribly different to what's being done in Victoria, the Police are probably more polite while they do it (but they're doing it).

State borders have been closed and roads in and out of the state are manned by state Police.  A pre-arranged pass is needed to get through the road block and they're not that easy to get even if you're in a stage 2 lockdown area like I am in Bendigo (almost impossible for someone from a hotspot area and difficult for someone from a stage 3 lockdown area).

As to the line between the stage 2 and stage 3 lockdown areas there is the 'ring fence border' around Greater Melbourne and the Mitchell Shire (which is all stage 3 except for the hotspot areas) that has road blocks manned by State Police assisted by Army personal.  Other than a small number of people trying to sneak through with fake reasons there have been no major issues. 

One idiot tried to sneak through on several roads, he got a warning... then a fine... then a bigger fine... then a huge fine and a court appearence.

Inside the stage 3 area the state of Victoria (Australia) locked down 9 large public housing towers which had hotspot outbreaks (many thousands of people who could not leave their home implemented without notice) due to a Covid outbreak in the housing towers about 2 weeks ago.   8 towers were released (after the residents were tested and some sent into isolation) but one tower remains locked down (the epicentre of the outbreak).  No violence, some minor issues initially getting some special food requirements and medicines but that was fixed quickly.

And the state government just announced that Masks will be mandatory to wear when ever one leaves your home, some complaining from a small minority but no major issues so far.  It remains to be seen what compliance is like but there are enforcable fines for not wearing a mask in public in the announcement.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-19/victoria-coronavirus-cases-climb-masks-become-mandatory/12470424?fbclid=IwAR0x2ZiyuSeGfb7QPd2EzwnHdZjWo2FUZQ__KZTyp0w7QeSQ6LTQlcu8SrY

 

So I'd say that Chinese(ish) methods (or at least methods similar to various Asian countries) are being used here and are being accepted by the people.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by GeoffH

[scott h]

9 minutes ago, GeoffH said:

The USA citizenry seems (as an outsider) to be a lot more worried about personal freedoms and a lot less worried about Covid than what I'm seeing in Australia

Your spot on Geoff. Its not all the USA citizenry, but a very sizable minority, if not a slight silent majority. It is also impossible to explain or to put into words, it is just the way it is