Moderna's virus vaccine costs far more than rival treatments

[Mike J]

Russia ready to supply Philippines with vaccine.   I think I will take a pass on a vaccine that was tested on "several volunteers". 

<snip>

He said the vaccine was tested on several volunteers and Russian scientists, all of whom have “healed well,” the envoy said.

“All of them were tested on these vaccines and all of them feel well,” he added.

“So, according to the analysis of our scientists, the results of the trials are very promising, very positive…The vaccine is effective and safe,” he further said.

<endsnip>

 

 https://globalnation.inquirer.net/190140/russia-ready-to-supply-ph-with-effective-safe-covid-19-vaccines-envoy

 

[GeoffH]

I would take an Australian developed vaccine, a UK developed vaccine, a US developed vaccine and probably most of the Euro zone ones (not sure how far along they are though).   I am wary of the Chinese vaccine and the Russian vaccine.

 

China have said they will 'prioritize Philippine access to a vaccine' so maybe the most common vaccine there will be that one?

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-07-30/China-vows-to-prioritize-Philippines-request-for-vaccine-access-Sxy6OlYSek/index.html

Edited August 8, 2020 by GeoffH

[scott h]

15 minutes ago, GeoffH said:

 I am wary of the Chinese vaccine and the Russian vaccine.

Just thing what gulags the volunteers come from   Imagined research conversation:

Doctor: How do you feel?

Volunteer: I still feel sick

Doctor: Back to the gulag.......NEXT!....and how do you feel?

Volunteer #2: Prefect!

Doctor: Ah good, here is a day pass for you 

[Snowy79]

Not that I'd suggest the Chinese would dream of testing the vacine on the approx 2M Uighur Muslims and other Muslims that they are busy re-educating in concentration camps but I reacon if they release a vaccine it may be one that actually works.  After not having been tested on the Uighurs obviously. 

[GeoffH]

10 hours ago, Snowy79 said:

I reacon if they release a vaccine it may be one that actually works.  After not having been tested on the Uighurs obviously. 

I also think that if the Chinese release a vaccine that it will work... for most people... most of the time,

I'm just not confident that they'll check it using a wide range of people and health conditions (not that they'd just check it on healthy Uighur men who're not in detention obviously or healthy 'volunteer' Chinese soldiers).

There are a whole lot of other factors that might come into play to, I can see a situation where "vaccine certificates" allow freedom of movement and vaccine refusers stay locked down.  Then there is the fact that the Chinese vaccine is possibly going to be the first one available as unlike a lot of other early vaccines their country doesn’t have high case numbers. 

On the other hand  I suspect that a lot of US vaccine production and Euro vaccine production is going to go to their home countries first (which is fair enough) but that might leave the Chinese vaccine as the only available one in a lot of countries.

It it was the only one I could get then I'd consider it but it'd have to be my only option for me to do that.


Then there is the separate issue of whether a vaccine creates just antibody production or whether it stimulates T-Cell and Antibody production (the second is arguably preferable and possibly indicates a longer immunity period).  There is still some question around the efficacy of the various vaccine stratagies and which methods will produce the best immunity and/or the longest lasting immunity.

But given the choice I'd choose a vaccine that gave a stronger immunity over one that produced a weaker immunity and one that produced a longer immune period over one that produced a shorter immune period.

But which vaccinee does what or works 'best' won't be clear for a while yet (and it might never be... for political reasons).

 

Edited August 9, 2020 by GeoffH

[Yeochief]

6 hours ago, Joey G said:

At this juncture, I'd give back the $1200 they gave me if it worked... but $74 is cheap.

We will not know if it works for many years.  I would not want to be one of the first ones to get the vaccine anyway.  I'm sure you will have to sign something saying you will not sue them in the years to come.  Look at the drugs they are putting on the street with all the side effects.

[GeoffH]

2 hours ago, Yeochief said:

We will not know if it works for many years.  I would not want to be one of the first ones to get the vaccine anyway.  I'm sure you will have to sign something saying you will not sue them in the years to come.  Look at the drugs they are putting on the street with all the side effects.

I'm sure we'll know if 'it works' (defined as decreasing the infection and/or death rate from Covid 19) within a year at most.

What we won't know is if there are uncommon problems with the vaccines and what those problems are (and yes I'm sure they'll be uncommon).

I don't think a waiver like you're suggesting is legally binding in most western countries. 

It might be in the US but it definitely wouldn't be in Australia because... as the lawyers say "you cannot sign away your rights to compensation" (and that's the case in some other British ex colonies as well).

As for side effects... well maybe, but that isn't really the question we should be asking.  

 

What we should be asking is "Are any potential side effects going to be worse than catching the virus?  And do the benefits outweigh the risks?"

For almost all existing vaccines the answer to thoses are 'no' and 'yes' respectively and I doubt it will be different with the new Covid vaccines but I concede there might be uncommon side effects.

 

[Joey G]

  14 hours ago,  Joey G said: 

At this juncture, I'd give back the $1200 they gave me if it worked... but $74 is cheap.

We will not know if it works for many years.  I would not want to be one of the first ones to get the vaccine anyway.  I'm sure you will have to sign something saying you will not sue them in the years to come.  Look at the drugs they are putting on the street with all the side effects.

 

If you believe that, and apparently don''t want to take it when it becomes available... I'm curious why you think the vaccine should be free?  

 

As far as where the $1B came from...  in the end, it's from the same place where the $1,200 everyone got came from... and our kids and grandkids will be paying for that long after we are gone