China's Influence

[Viking]

14 hours ago, Mike J said:

Wars usually are fought over resources (I want yours), religion (I hate yours), ideology (you are wrong), or some combination of those three.   Long term war is bad for business, except for those who build weapons.  Unless, of course, you are defeated and the "winner" rebuilds your countries infrastructure and economy.  

Wars where  "firstworld" countries are involved is most often because of resources. Resources is the same as money.

Many countries have people in leading positions that is also deeply involved in the companies that make huge profits from war. For them war is good and they dont give a damn about the people suffering. When I said war is good for business I meant that is good for some, quite often for those in power. I remember watching a documentary about a war and some people made huge money on bombing the shit out of this place. The same people made lots of money also after the war, because they made sure that other companies, they also were involved in, got the contracts to build it up again, win-win  . Thats great business, get paid for destroying something and then get paid again to rebuild it. The loosers are all who lost their life/health/things and the taxpayers who had to pay for it all.

[hk blues]

I suppose modern war is a combination of the things others have mentioned - there is usually an idealigical difference which sparks dispute but if there is nothing in it for either side, they are probably not going to go to war.

 

[OnMyWay]

On 9/8/2020 at 8:44 AM, OnMyWay said:

This is the NY Times article, if you happen to find them more legit.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/08/technology/china-twitter-disinformation.html

I started this topic about the new and powerful weapon China is using, Social Media.  Others, like Russia, and who knows, maybe U.S., are using social media to influence politics and elections in countries where they have no business doing so.  Somehow it went back to the old weapons and old wars.  That is fine, I'm not complaining.  If you think about it, social media influencing is just another tool used by countries to accomplish the goal.  There are many covert tools already in place.

I only mention it because I am going to start a new topic on China's Influence, but directly related to the Philippines.

[Clermont]

I get what your saying, stop and have a think, how buggerd would the world be if a country took over a main infrastructor  of another country, eg; power grid. 

[OnMyWay]

6 hours ago, Clermont said:

I get what your saying, stop and have a think, how buggerd would the world be if a country took over a main infrastructor  of another country, eg; power grid. 

Not sure how you deduced what I was thinking but that is spot on.  What China has been doing is loaning money for infrastructure, then when the poor country can't pay, they take over the infrastructure.

[Snowy79]

9 hours ago, OnMyWay said:

I started this topic about the new and powerful weapon China is using, Social Media.  Others, like Russia, and who knows, maybe U.S., are using social media to influence politics and elections in countries where they have no business doing so.  Somehow it went back to the old weapons and old wars.  That is fine, I'm not complaining.  If you think about it, social media influencing is just another tool used by countries to accomplish the goal.  There are many covert tools already in place.

I must admit I have a good chuckle when I hear politicians complaining a foreign country releasing true information about how corrupt they are is disgusting. Even funnier when their supporters defend them. 

I wouldn't care where the information came from as long as it is true.  Trying to blame a foreign country for you losing an election just because they warned the public off how corrupt you are borders on stupidity. 

[Tommy T.]

9 hours ago, OnMyWay said:

Not sure how you deduced what I was thinking but that is spot on.  What China has been doing is loaning money for infrastructure, then when the poor country can't pay, they take over the infrastructure.

This is exactly what the World Bank  and International Monetary Fund have been doing for years. They start big, grandiose projects in underdeveloped countries. They provide huge loans to do this. Then, when the country usually defaults on loan payments, they take over the projects and more.

I wish I could remember the name of the book that describes this in detail, but looking online just now, there seems to be a number of books that describe this,

So the Chinese have figured out the system and, like they do with so many other things, are copying it to take control.

[Tommy T.]

10 hours ago, Tommy T. said:

19 hours ago, OnMyWay said:

Not sure how you deduced what I was thinking but that is spot on.  What China has been doing is loaning money for infrastructure, then when the poor country can't pay, they take over the infrastructure.

 

Ah... I finally remembered the name of that book I mentioned:

"Confessions of an Economic Hitman"

I highly recommend this book because of how the author describes - in clear detail - how the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank have essentially raped developing countries. I was truly shocked when I read it and embarrassed to be from one of the countries that funded, supported and condoned this behaviour....

[Tommy T.]

I am not trying to hijack your topic @OnMyWay, but I would like to make another comment...

Currently, I follow a fair amount of news coverage. One of the things I have noticed is that, besides USA, Taiwan and Philippines (of course), Vietnam, Malaysia, Australia, Japan and a few others seem to be putting China on notice that their behaviour is not really acceptable - especially regarding maritime claims. To me, it's way too late in some instances  - since they have taken physical control and built military bases on islands and atolls in the "South China" Sea.

But my take is that if someone doesn't step in and say that enough is too much... they won't stop. Instead they will continue to push push push and then get all surprised and upset whenever somebody pushes back.

No... I don't have the answer, so I guess that is a rhetorical question/comment? But I am curious about others' viewpoints? I think OMW brought up a good topic here...

Yeah... I know, this is fairly heavy political discussion I am fomenting here, so please, mods,  delete this if it is too incendiary for this forum? It just makes me feel a bit better to express my opinion about this... So my micro-rant is done now...

[GeoffH]

15 minutes ago, Tommy T. said:

But I am curious about others' viewpoints?

I think the South China sea issue has been left too late for anything other than symbolic gestures and I think Taiwan is in an increasingly dangerous situation.

If you'd asked me as recently as 5 years ago if I thought there was a chance of China invading then I'd have dismissed it without a thought but now.. now I am not so sure.  

It's only a guess but I could see them doing some sort of lightning attack without warning hoping to overwhelm Taiwan's defences, landing large amounts of troops before western countries could respond.  I really hope they don't though, the Philippines are entirely too close to the war in that case and western foreigners could be placed in an difficult situation where civilian air traffic is restricted or limited.