Will the Philippine real estate market ever recover?

[hk blues]

1 hour ago, Snowy79 said:

It stinks of the sub prime mortgage issues of old.  I'm sure we all know the 24hr millionaires here and the general tendency to view a loan as a gift, it's got disaster written all over it. The only saving grace I think is the buildings are priced for Western wages but built using 3rd World wages.  I'm sure the large contractors have healthy bank balances that could tide them over for a few years. Even renting them out cheap will cover the construction costs. 

My concern is will the maintenance still get carried out or put on the back burner to save overheads? The general build standard and quality of materials are very poor. I'd hazzard a quess a property here wouldn't last half the life of an average Western house.  I've seen some pretty run down properties that are only a few years old.

I agree that the major developers have a fair bit of padding to see them through for a good while - the smaller ones not so much so there will be some impact on the market. Properties where I am cost about 400,000php to build -the contractor told me that's what his company get so the cost is obviously less - and they sell for 5,000,000php so that's about 10%. Land is on top obviously but still a hefty markup. 

Yep. the "optional" costs will be trimmed as much as possible so that's an issue.  As you say, the quality isn't great to start with so with a lack of maintenance it's even more problematic.  It's one reason I don't totally agree that bricks and mortar is necessarily a good investment here - it very much depends on the individual property.  Where I am, properties that sit empty for more than 2 years become derelict quickly - that's houses. 

 

 

[hk blues]

7 hours ago, Freebie said:

There very much is a BIG safety aspect to owning a condo. Firstly if one buys from a "proper" developer there's no/less  issue with the title, whereas with land , especially when a buyer /seller knows theres a poriner involved there can be and have been a great many issues with titles, real fake or otherwise.

Secondly the condo owner can clearly state whose name should appear on the title and assuming its one person, can then take care of the title accordingly. Mine is in a safety deposit box.

And then when the selling time comes, the titles provided can be very clearly documented and identified assuming one uses a reputable realtor.

I sold one BGC condo to a very cautious couple, so cautious they even bought their own " title expert" to verify that the title to the condo I owned was legit.

But searching for legit titles in provinces, wher you dont know all the language, you dont know if you can trust your realtor, your lawyer, and please, said with no offence  intended not knowing if you can trust your own wife can be a whole other ball of wax.

And youtube can show a great many expats who were scammed into buying houses and land for which there was no title. And if they objected, well some of these were " offed" as @Dave says. Due diligence folks !

Yes, but if you buy a house from one of the major developers the issues you mention don't exist.  

[RBM]

13 hours ago, hk blues said:

Yes, but if you buy a house from one of the major developers the issues you mention don't exist.  

Not so sure here, I know of several purchasers whom bought from Robinsons Land and have experienced major issues. Both on obtaining title and even worse some of the quality issues were, unless seen unbelievable.

[Gandang Smile]

2 hours ago, RBM said:

Not so sure here, I know of several purchasers whom bought from Robinsons Land and have experienced major issues. Both on obtaining title and even worse some of the quality issues were, unless seen unbelievable.

That's what I heard, too. Robinsons Land is a very mediocre developer. They have 3 or 4 large condo projects in Ortigas and, besides perhaps one that is being developed with the Westin hotel brand, they are all of inferior quality to the ones I bought, in the same area, and costed 40% more.

The only developers that consistently deliver to the expected quality, that I know of, are: Ayala, DMCI, Rockwell and (hit and miss) Century Properties. I heard good things from Ortigas Land. SMDC, Filinvest, Federal Land, Megaworld, they are all rubbish.

Megaworld is known to build large "city in the city" integrated communities which look quite impressive on first look. When you see the material and construction quality, you then realise it's basically "Chinese ghost city" quality. When we were in Iloilo we saw this huge MW development called Festive Walk, which looks grandiose until you look at the tiles and the walls in the porticos, all cracking and crumbling down...and the place is, what, 2 years old? I dread to think how the residential units will look like in a few years' time.

SMDC has been trying to develop higher end projects but it remains to be seen if they are just after a price hike, or they can deliver to a better quality.

[Freebie]

16 minutes ago, Gandang Smile said:

SMDC has been trying to develop higher end projects but it remains to be seen if they are just after a price hike, or they can deliver to a better quality.

Never will. They have too many rules and pracrtices about using the cheapest quote and as the saying goes.. " you get what you pay for, and you pay for what you get".

SMDC properties after 5 years look awful. Just see Jazz apartments.

The ones you mentioned Ayala ( especially Premier) Ortigas Land, Rockwell and DMCI all build to a much higher standard. The rest build as cheap as possible. And are VERY much to be avoided.

[Dave Hounddriver]

15 minutes ago, Gandang Smile said:

. Robinsons Land is a very mediocre developer

When I left Dumaguete they were the only company in the city building condos.  Since reading of your less than stellar review, I hope the purchasers don't have any trouble.  I actually considered buying one myself but I could not bring myself to spend the money.

There was another builder in Dumaguete who started building condos in 2012 and sold a bunch of units.  They did not even get the ribs of it finished.  That part took them 5 years before they gave up and stopped all work.  So condos are not a safe investment if someone buys a "pre-purchase"

[hk blues]

3 hours ago, RBM said:

Not so sure here, I know of several purchasers whom bought from Robinsons Land and have experienced major issues. Both on obtaining title and even worse some of the quality issues were, unless seen unbelievable.

I was really only focusing on the issues you mentioned about Land Title - I don't have any personal experience of Robinson Land but can't see how there could be an issue getting land title if you own the land.  It may take up to 6 months after purchase as per what my developer advised me but it happens. 

[Gandang Smile]

1 hour ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

When I left Dumaguete they were the only company in the city building condos.  Since reading of your less than stellar review, I hope the purchasers don't have any trouble.  I actually considered buying one myself but I could not bring myself to spend the money.

There was another builder in Dumaguete who started building condos in 2012 and sold a bunch of units.  They did not even get the ribs of it finished.  That part took them 5 years before they gave up and stopped all work.  So condos are not a safe investment if someone buys a "pre-purchase"

Robinsons Land have placed themselves in the low-to-mid-tier and the quality just speak for itself. Yet, they are not known for dropping project mid-way. That's probably the only reason to buy from the larger developers, instead of a smaller, local one like the one you mentioned. The risk of a project not being completed and buyers finding themselves with less than a 100% refund is very real.

I bought my condo in Davao from one such developer (FTC) and it's been a miracle they managed to complete, to high standards I must say, despite the 3-year delay.

[Gandang Smile]

1 hour ago, hk blues said:

I was really only focusing on the issues you mentioned about Land Title - I don't have any personal experience of Robinson Land but can't see how there could be an issue getting land title if you own the land.  It may take up to 6 months after purchase as per what my developer advised me but it happens. 

Titles are always filed with the local authorities when it's fiscally and economically more convenient with the developer. I am not sure about the exact mechanics of this but, based on the date of completion and date of purchase, a buyer may end up waiting up to 2 years for the title.

[hk blues]

22 minutes ago, Gandang Smile said:

Titles are always filed with the local authorities when it's fiscally and economically more convenient with the developer. I am not sure about the exact mechanics of this but, based on the date of completion and date of purchase, a buyer may end up waiting up to 2 years for the title.

Sure, I understand there is a timing issue but cannot see how there can be a legal issue with a title when buying from a large developer.  We waited 6 months for our Title from Vista Land, some of our neighbours were a year - the good thing is the land tax is only payable after the Title is transferred.