Terry P Posted December 5, 2020 Posted December 5, 2020 1 hour ago, graham59 said: No probs mate. How many U.S. bases does our proud independent nation host ?...and very thankful for them we are too, I'm pretty sure. Back in 1990/91, the Phils government (some of them anyway) just got too greedy. There certainly would have been a lot more, and rapid assistance from the U.S. following the many natural disasters that have occurred down the years since....and there certainly would NOT be a Chinese presence in the Spratleys to fret over either. 90/91 was that the full story Graham? It also coincided with the end of the cold war and military de-escalation in general. It was also widely reported that American troops using Philippines bases for 'R&R' especially during the Vietnam war period were guilty of inappropriate behaviour among the local population which caused much resentment. The issue of the spratley Islands was firmly on the US radar back in 2014 when Obama had a little visit to Manila. Concern about the emergence of China was on the agenda and the vunerability of Philippines but was the main issue not about the threat to global shipping routes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham59 Posted December 5, 2020 Posted December 5, 2020 42 minutes ago, TerryP said: It also coincided with the end of the cold war and military de-escalation in general. Purely coincidental, and nothing to do with the base closures in the Philippines. Were the bases in the UK closed, and the 'early warning stations' (one of which I used to work at) ? . 45 minutes ago, TerryP said: It was also widely reported that American troops using Philippines bases for 'R&R' especially during the Vietnam war period were guilty of inappropriate behaviour among the local population which caused much resentment. Widely reported where, and by whom ? You have any links to these reports ? Angeles City and Subic were of course 'R&R' /bar areas for U.S. forces , and had been so for many decades before and after Vietnam. The locals grew fat on the money from such activities. Perhaps you are referring to the pressure from the foreign 'do-gooder' organisations ? Still around today of course, and busy creating jobs and income generation from their self-righteous shit-stirring activities around the world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry P Posted December 5, 2020 Posted December 5, 2020 47 minutes ago, graham59 said: Purely coincidental, and nothing to do with the base closures in the Philippines. Were the bases in the UK closed, and the 'early warning stations' (one of which I used to work at) ? . Widely reported where, and by whom ? You have any links to these reports ? Angeles City and Subic were of course 'R&R' /bar areas for U.S. forces , and had been so for many decades before and after Vietnam. The locals grew fat on the money from such activities. Perhaps you are referring to the pressure from the foreign 'do-gooder' organisations ? Still around today of course, and busy creating jobs and income generation from their self-righteous shit-stirring activities around the world. Not sure if this one will appear I studied this topic quite a while ago on another device. It's taken from an independent publication called the diplomat citing various reasons for withdrawal from the Philippines all of which I've mentioned including inappropriate behaviour noted by US authorities. In addition however there had recently been a significant volcanic eruption causing extensive damage to US bases. This was another factor attributed to US withdrawal. Had a check back and most of what I've mentioned can be found in US mainstream publications of the period Former US Bases in the Philippines Prompt Mixed Feelings – The Diplomat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham59 Posted December 5, 2020 Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) Yes, I lived there (in Angeles) both before and after the Pinatubo eruption. Naturally, there will be different views on the subject from the various 'pundits' . I believe the U.S. had already made up their minds to move on, before the eruption. Had there been a more sensible stance taken by the Philippines government, the subsequent clean-up would also have been a lot easier, aided by the U.S. forces on the ground...and 45,000 Filipino base employees not put out of work (along with the negative effect on the estimated half million locals who derived income from the bases). I see it this way: The Philippines people were deprived of the 'in-house' protection of the most powerful civilised democracy in the world, by a few rich and privileged individuals whining about some sort of national (third world country) pride issue. Now China is ready and waiting to suck the Philippines dry, as they have with so many other poor and badly-led nations. Edited December 5, 2020 by graham59 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry P Posted December 5, 2020 Posted December 5, 2020 16 minutes ago, graham59 said: Yes, I lived there (in Angeles) both before and after the Pinatubo eruption. Naturally, there will be different views on the subject from the various 'pundits' . I believe the U.S. had already made up their minds to move on, before the eruption. Had there been a more sensible stance taken by the Philippines government, the subsequent clean-up would also have been a lot easier, aided by the U.S. forces on the ground...and 45,000 Filipino base employees not put out of work (along with the negative effect on the estimated half million locals who derived income from the bases). I see it this way: The Philippines people were deprived of the 'in-house' protection of the most powerful civilised democracy in the world, by a few rich and privileged individuals whining about some sort of national (third world country) pride issue. Now China is ready and waiting to suck the Philippines dry, as they have with so many other poor and badly-led nations. I believe the Americans had already decided to leave at the cessation of the cold war before Aquinas demand for a bigger payday which was definitely contributary to the manner of leaving the Pinatubo eruption was the final nail in the coffin Move on 20 odd years there's intense interest once again because of Chinese encroachment. It's self interest once again. Philippines is in a prime geographic position of course the USA and the rest of the west want a place at the table there Duterte or whoever was in charge would be right to milk it. I would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry P Posted December 5, 2020 Posted December 5, 2020 5 hours ago, TerryP said: I believe the Americans had already decided to leave at the cessation of the cold war before Aquinas demand for a bigger payday which was definitely contributary to the manner of leaving the Pinatubo eruption was the final nail in the coffin Move on 20 odd years there's intense interest once again because of Chinese encroachment. It's self interest once again. Philippines is in a prime geographic position of course the USA and the rest of the west want a place at the table there Duterte or whoever was in charge would be right to milk it. I would 5 hours ago, TerryP said: I believe the Americans had already decided to leave at the cessation of the cold war before Aquinas demand for a bigger payday which was definitely contributary to the manner of leaving the Pinatubo eruption was the final nail in the coffin Move on 20 odd years there's intense interest once again because of Chinese encroachment. It's self interest once again. Philippines is in a prime geographic position of course the USA and the rest of the west want a place at the table there Duterte or whoever was in charge would be right to milk it. I would Tell me please Graham If you feel the government are incompetent, have taken handouts from your American colleagues and pocketed vast swathes of it and foolishly booted the American military out then the general public regard foreigners as paedophiles why are you still there? I'd have exited a long time ago I'm fascinated. There must be more. Something positive perhaps to keep you there If it's so bad why are there so many westerners living there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham59 Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 5 hours ago, TerryP said: Tell me please Graham If you feel the government are incompetent, have taken handouts from your American colleagues and pocketed vast swathes of it and foolishly booted the American military out then the general public regard foreigners as paedophiles why are you still there? I'd have exited a long time ago I'm fascinated. There must be more. Something positive perhaps to keep you there If it's so bad why are there so many westerners living there Seems like you're now looking for an argument, presumably to 'correct' my thinking ... or at the very least, as a total stranger, you're asking me to furnish you with details of my personal life and motivations. Not going to happen sir. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum Support Old55 Posted December 6, 2020 Forum Support Posted December 6, 2020 (edited) Terry, a polite reminder. Nothing wrong with disagreeing and discussing but it's not OK to attack other members. Edited December 6, 2020 by Old55 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry P Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 Reminder noted old A reply for both you and Graham. What I have said may seem abrupt but is it not reasonable to assume that someone living out there with so many negative opinions about the place must also have some positive opinions to balance it out otherwise why would they stay. I've got no interest in Graham's personal affairs persay or desire to correct his opinion. Merely to ask about his positive experiences there not his specific personal life details The second point I made unrelated to this particular posting but rather to a post about voluntary disaster relief work I do find disturbing. Perhaps it may have been more appropriate to comment on matter in the other post but it is what it is now Quote 'they think all us poriners are pedos' probably needs some clarification. My experience is of my lady setting up a kitchen in her family's barangay at the worst part of this pandemic for the kids to be fed when no assistance was arriving from government. I funded it along with her OFW son and they knew this. Even now I'm recieving messages from the kids and their parents. So the likelihood of being accused of being a paedophile I find incredible This is not a point scoring exercise I'm sorry if it's being viewed that way 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum Support Old55 Posted December 6, 2020 Forum Support Posted December 6, 2020 16 minutes ago, TerryP said: Reminder noted old A reply for both you and Graham. What I have said may seem abrupt but is it not reasonable to assume that someone living out there with so many negative opinions about the place must also have some positive opinions to balance it out otherwise why would they stay. I've got no interest in Graham's personal affairs persay or desire to correct his opinion. Merely to ask about his positive experiences there not his specific personal life details The second point I made unrelated to this particular posting but rather to a post about voluntary disaster relief work I do find disturbing. Perhaps it may have been more appropriate to comment on matter in the other post but it is what it is now Quote 'they think all us poriners are pedos' probably needs some clarification. My experience is of my lady setting up a kitchen in her family's barangay at the worst part of this pandemic for the kids to be fed when no assistance was arriving from government. I funded it along with her OFW son and they knew this. Even now I'm recieving messages from the kids and their parents. So the likelihood of being accused of being a paedophile I find incredible This is not a point scoring exercise I'm sorry if it's being viewed that way Thank you Terry. You and your wife have made a real difference in a time of desperate need. That is admirable and a role model for us all. Truly. Many here have attempted to help Filipino family, friends even total strangers it's not always so easy we do what we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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