Vaccine or No Vaccine

[JJReyes]

5 hours ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

So the vaccines are impressive.  That's nice.  The rest of your post reminds me of being a kid on the playground yelling at another kid "You ain't as good as you think you are" (knowing they could kick my ass).

Anyway, back to the topic.  The flu vaccine never eliminated the flu but I still take it every year.

Anyone who expected the Covid vaccines to end the epidemic has not been paying attention.  People who have been vaccinated can still get Covid, just not bad enough for hospitalization and death.

Like clockwork, my wife and I get a flu shot every year.  We can't remember when was the last time either one of us got sick from the flu.  Our primary care physician is of the opinion this helped keep Covid-19 away because immunity builds up over the years.  Added to that were increased intake of certain vitamins.  More important is the vaccinations given after we qualified as seniors.

When visiting the Philippines or a developing country, there are a few additional preventive health measures.  I love seafood, but avoid shellfish because you never know the source and level of water contamination.  Another thing to avoid is milk based products that require refrigeration.  Unless it is a top notch restaurant or hotel, you are not sure if they follow proper sanitary procedures.  Another precaution is bottled water only.

[scott h]

20 minutes ago, Mike J said:

If the vaccine is 95% effective, there remains a 5 % chance you may still get corona if vaccinated, but an almost zero chance of it causing hospitalization or death.

That is what I meant Mike,,,you just have a better way with words 

[Mike J]

4 hours ago, Explorer said:

Don't shoot the messenger... None of the statements in the post are mine, I just quoted what immunologists from Imperial College London and Mayo Clinic are saying in the Scientific American article.

And that article was published in January 2021, prior to any of the vaccines being approved.   Given a new article they very well might be saying the vaccines have been successful.  You can criticize the speed of a new train before it leaves the station, but that doesn't mean you are going to be correct.  Opinions and medical advice change as new data arrives.

 

[Jake]

Wow, a couple weeks after my 2nd shot, I developed this severe aliment that affects my motor skills.

I can't do the dishes, vacuum the house or take out the trash.  I'm dying here.  Pray for me, OK?  

[Snowy79]

I'm still trying to get my head around the figures. The stage three trials of Astrazenica in the US had 32,449 participents and from that they came out with some impressive figures about how efficient it is, 79% was the last I read. Correct me if I'm wrong but before the vaccine they were quoting 4.6 people per 100,000 being hospitalised with covid. That in my mind means they are just winging the figures as it could be just nature not the vaccine that is limiting the hospitalisation.

Stage three trials: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/22/astrazeneca-coronavirus-vaccine-79percent-effective-in-us-trial.html

CDC numbers on hospitalisation per 100,000 : https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6915e3.htm

 

[Mike J]

42 minutes ago, Snowy79 said:

I'm still trying to get my head around the figures. The stage three trials of Astrazenica in the US had 32,449 participents and from that they came out with some impressive figures about how efficient it is, 79% was the last I read. Correct me if I'm wrong but before the vaccine they were quoting 4.6 people per 100,000 being hospitalised with covid. That in my mind means they are just winging the figures as it could be just nature not the vaccine that is limiting the hospitalisation.

Stage three trials: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/22/astrazeneca-coronavirus-vaccine-79percent-effective-in-us-trial.html

CDC numbers on hospitalisation per 100,000 : https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6915e3.htm

 

Effectiveness is measured against a similar control group, not against the population as a whole.  A large group is chosen and half, chosen at random, get vaccine and half get placebo.  The efficiency of the vaccine is measured as being how it performed against the placebo group, not the population as a whole.  Probably not the best explanation but maybe it will help. 

 

[Snowy79]

1 hour ago, Mike J said:

Effectiveness is measured against a similar control group, not against the population as a whole.  A large group is chosen and half, chosen at random, get vaccine and half get placebo.  The efficiency of the vaccine is measured as being how it performed against the placebo group, not the population as a whole.  Probably not the best explanation but maybe it will help. 

 

I read into it but as usual for every pro there was a con. It wasn't a fully balanced trial with equal amounts in each age group and sex plus different vaccines were trailed in different countries at different times.  The Astrazenica was trialed during a plateau in infections and the Russian one was trialed whilst there was an ongoing spike in infections. Others there was already an ongoing drop in infections. I get it that if they trailed 5k in one age and sex group then 2.5k had a placebo and 2.5k had the vaccination but for me 2.5k and that's being generous isn't a big survey and over 3 or 4 months in my mind isn't long enough.

I just think when they take say 30k participants and on average very few get admitted to hospital before the vaccine and less still from certain age groups it's nigh on impossible to come out with an accurate result.  Some groups there was less than 2k tested. As the results showed the differences were in single figures.  A bit like saying 99.9777% of the population will survive covid but now thanks to the vaccine survival rates are up to 99.9788%. 

I'd give it another year and a few more mutations of covid and maybe 100 more vaccines being released before we start to make sense of it all. Scotland for instance is ahead of England in vaccinations, a much less dense population and as such easier to control yet the death rates are the worst in the UK and numbers still climbing. 

I'm still giving vaccines a 6 out of 10, lifestyle an 8 out of 10.  Both of them could have long term benefits or complications but at least I'm in control of my lifestyle.  

[Snowy79]

Germany has just suspended the Astrazenica vaccine for the under 60s as has a few other countries. This follows an independent study showing a higher than expected number of rare blood clots occuring following vaccination.  Women accounted for 29 of the 31 cases in Germany. 

[Snowy79]

Now EU investigators are saying there's a link with blood clots and the Astrazenica vaccine. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-31/ema-review-of-astra-vaccine-risks-finds-246-u-k-adverse-events

[JJReyes]

The CDC announced that fully vaccinated persons can travel.  Yes!  No need to feel guilty about it.  The downside is airline ticket prices are going up.  The tickets we purchased a few weeks ago were American Airlines, Los Angeles to Miami on first class, Miami to Quito on business class for $856.00 per person round trip.  No rebooking fees if we want to change dates.  Probably the last bargain prices of 2021.

In the meantime, the Philippines is now red flagged by UK, meaning if you are from or have passed through the Philippines during the past 10 days, you cannot enter.  UK citizens and those with residency rights are exempt, but they have to quarantine and be tested for Covid-19.