World war 3?

[Old55]

38 minutes ago, Gator said:

And it seems like the US’s new sanctions are working: 

Clearly a crime against humanity. 

[graham59]

Apart from the human suffering.... so sad seeing some beautiful buildings being destroyed, as well as the homes of innocent people. What a bloody waste. 

[Dave Hounddriver]

Why are the problems between Russia and Ukraine the west's fault and the west's problem?  According to this Ukranian blogger, Ukraine had nuclear weapons when the USSR broke up and the west negotiated for Ukraine to turn over all nuclear weapons to Russia.  In return the west would protect Ukraine . .  we now see how that worked out.  Anyway, better in her words so here she is . . .
 

 

 

[GeoffH]

4 hours ago, graham59 said:

Apart from the human suffering.... so sad seeing some beautiful buildings being destroyed, as well as the homes of innocent people. What a bloody waste. 

Not just buildings... a unique aeroplane, the Antonov AN-225 Heavy lifter which is the largest operational plane in the world has been destroyed in at attack on the City Airport.

https://thewest.com.au/news/aviation/giant-plane-the-antonov-an-225-destroyed-by-russians-in-ukraine-c-5864022

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by GeoffH

[Jollygoodfellow]

13 hours ago, Old55 said:

Could it be he see's the invasion is failing? A desperate attempt to instill fear and relevancy like rocket man Kim. 

Exactly

But now extra help from Belarus may change things. Putin is feeling it now from the world and his own people. Soon his people will revolt now they are having trouble getting money and slowly finding out what's really going on.

Last night I seen a youtube video where captured Russian soldiers were asked by Ukrainian army why they were here. I think all answered they were tricked, they were told they are going for exercises and did not want to be there. One was a reservist army.  

[KC813]

18 hours ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

Why are the problems between Russia and Ukraine the west's fault and the west's problem?  According to this Ukranian blogger, Ukraine had nuclear weapons when the USSR broke up and the west negotiated for Ukraine to turn over all nuclear weapons to Russia.  In return the west would protect Ukraine . .  we now see how that worked out.  Anyway, better in her words so here she is . . .
 

 

 

Not just the West.  As the presenter in this you tube correctly mentions, it was the UK, US and Russia that agreed to protect Ukraine.  Russia appears to have changed its mind, or as Putin keeps implying to his people, Ukraine is still part of Russia.

The memorandum was signed at time when denuclearizing small countries was considered more important then the remote chance of Ukraine becoming a potential flash point for nuclear conflict between US and Russia 28 years later.

Much of the world is uniting over Ukraine and levying sanctions - likely a serious miscalculation by Putin.  Seeing such a dangerous man being backed into a corner without a face-saving way out is starting to worry me....

[scott h]

11 minutes ago, KC813 said:

Ukraine is still part of Russia.

When asked by locals why Russia is doing this, I give this example. 

Imagine that during the Peoples Revolution of 1986 (like Soviet Union break up), Mindanao took the opportunity to break away from Manila after 500 years (Parts of Ukraine was part of Russia/Soviet since the 1700s) 40 years later Manila says, "ok boys, break time is over, time to return the the family! Historically you belong to us"

[graham59]

It is up to the majority of the population of a country to decide whom they want to 'belong' to... not one troublemaking dictator...whatever the history behind them.    

[GeoffH]

2 hours ago, graham59 said:

It is up to the majority of the population of a country to decide whom they want to 'belong' to... 

Nice in theory but even Western countries don't generally adhere to that rule.

An example I'm familiar with; there was a secession referendum in the state (former British Colony) of Western Australia in 1933.  The referendum proposal got a majority of votes and it was sent to the British Parliament requesting that Western Austalia leave the Australian Federation and become a separate member of the British Commonwealth (or Empire) as was and is New Zealand (which chose by a very narrow margin in 1901 not to join).

However despite the original Federation constitution containing a clause which would allow 'de-federation' the referendum was rejected by the British Parliament and later the Federal parliment in Canberra.

That's just one example of many... and sometimes referenda are refused, Scotland have been seeking another since Brexit without success.  If Scotland voted to secede would you be ok with that?  Or Northern Ireland?  I don't have an opinion either way...  just curious.

Don't get me wrong, I strongly believe the Ukraine deserves to be independent (because it is already independent) but that's not the same thing as believing that a referendum should automatically give the right to secede (it's just not as simple as that).

Edited March 1, 2022 by GeoffH

[Mike J]

If Putin succeeds in the land grab will he demand the USA give back Alaska?  Send in "peace keepers"?