land listing way much above "market" price

[OnMyWay]

1 hour ago, JJReyes said:

Philippine landowners expect buyers to ask for a huge discount -- maybe 50% but often 25%.  If you ask 100K and the offer is 25K, there is a lot of wiggle room.  The asking price is not the purchase price.  In the United States, the offering price is closer to market value.  The reason is, on the day of recordation, the purchase price becomes public information. So you know what similar properties in the area sold for.  Realtors subscribe to the Multiple Listing Service which gives them all kinds of information, including how many days the property has been on the market or if there are changes in the offering price.  

The lack of visibility on actual selling prices is a big reason why I have given up on moving to Angeles City.  It is impossible to determine fair market value.  The (usually brand new) houses we like in the subdivisions we like are priced at 10-25 million.  No idea what they sell for and most sit on the market for months and years.  Most of these are spec houses and I have no idea how the builders finance them while they languish on the market.

As a joke, I posted a link to a house in the Angeles Expat FB group.  Description and FB link below.  Pulu Amsic is the most expensive sub-division in Angeles and is a really nice place, but this is over the top.  One of the group members posted that he lives nearby and knows the place.  It was rented to Chinese for 500,000 a month.  They and it was for sale for 70 million.  Now it is for sale for 120 million, 2.2 mil USD.  But, he said it has been rented to Chinese again for 650,000 a month.  I have no idea where he gets the numbers from.

While Pulu Amsic is a nice place, it is still smack dab in the middle of third world city in a third world country.  They have frequent brown outs, water shortage, etc., just like every place else.  You leave the sub-division and you have crazy traffic and drivers, beggars and terrible infrastructure.  Why anyone would pay so much for a house in a third world country is beyond me.  The really nice houses we like for 25 mil asking (~450k usd) are on small lots with neighbors very close.  That's crazy.  And you have no idea of the quality of the build.  It may look nice, but who knows?

https://www.facebook.com/LivinPampanga     (scroll down)

SPECTACULAR MANSION WITH SWIMMING POOL FOR SALE

Located inside Pulu Amsic subdivision near Clark Angeles City Pampanga

987sqm Lot Area

750sqm floor area

Features

• 6 Bedrooms with walk-in closets

• 8 Toilet and baths

• 4 car garage

*Internal Rooms:

• 4Bedrooms (main building), 2 Bedrooms (annex)

• Maid's and Driver's room plus additional conversion for additional staff / guard’s quarters

• Each of the six main bedrooms have own shower room/WC and built-in

cupboards and drawers for storage

• Fully Fitted Kitchen with imported Appliances

• Dirty Kitchen

• Dining Room

• Family Lounge

• Study

• Gym

• Theater room

• fully furnished and fitted out with relevant modern equipment

*Outside Area:

• Fully landscaped gardens, swimming pool (approx 12m x 5m) with

toilets and changing room

• Timber Balinese cabana

• enclosed lanai decked

• BBQ area

• poolside bar with seating area

• large tiled outside

patio

• internal / external coloured LED decorative lighting

*Features :

• UPVC single-glazed window system throughout

• ceiling fans

• remote controlled electric gate for 4-car covered parking area

• Solar-water

heater (300 litres) stocked glass fish tank

• ground level aquarium

with koi fish

• Tastefully decorated, furnished, and finished to the highest standards

• Solid wood floors upstairs with Polyurethane Finish for easy cleaning and durability

Selling Price ₱120,000,000 or $2,264,150

Cash or Bank Financing

[BrettGC]

4 minutes ago, OnMyWay said:

The lack of visibility on actual selling prices is a big reason why I have given up on moving to Angeles City.  It is impossible to determine fair market value.  The (usually brand new) houses we like in the subdivisions we like are priced at 10-25 million.  No idea what they sell for and most sit on the market for months and years.  Most of these are spec houses and I have no idea how the builders finance them while they languish on the market.

As a joke, I posted a link to a house in the Angeles Expat FB group.  Description and FB link below.  Pulu Amsic is the most expensive sub-division in Angeles and is a really nice place, but this is over the top.  One of the group members posted that he lives nearby and knows the place.  It was rented to Chinese for 500,000 a month.  They and it was for sale for 70 million.  Now it is for sale for 120 million, 2.2 mil USD.  But, he said it has been rented to Chinese again for 650,000 a month.  I have no idea where he gets the numbers from.

While Pulu Amsic is a nice place, it is still smack dab in the middle of third world city in a third world country.  They have frequent brown outs, water shortage, etc., just like every place else.  You leave the sub-division and you have crazy traffic and drivers, beggars and terrible infrastructure.  Why anyone would pay so much for a house in a third world country is beyond me.  The really nice houses we like for 25 mil asking (~450k usd) are on small lots with neighbors very close.  That's crazy.  And you have no idea of the quality of the build.  It may look nice, but who knows?

https://www.facebook.com/LivinPampanga     (scroll down)

SPECTACULAR MANSION WITH SWIMMING POOL FOR SALE

Located inside Pulu Amsic subdivision near Clark Angeles City Pampanga

987sqm Lot Area

750sqm floor area

Features

• 6 Bedrooms with walk-in closets

• 8 Toilet and baths

• 4 car garage

*Internal Rooms:

• 4Bedrooms (main building), 2 Bedrooms (annex)

• Maid's and Driver's room plus additional conversion for additional staff / guard’s quarters

• Each of the six main bedrooms have own shower room/WC and built-in

cupboards and drawers for storage

• Fully Fitted Kitchen with imported Appliances

• Dirty Kitchen

• Dining Room

• Family Lounge

• Study

• Gym

• Theater room

• fully furnished and fitted out with relevant modern equipment

*Outside Area:

• Fully landscaped gardens, swimming pool (approx 12m x 5m) with

toilets and changing room

• Timber Balinese cabana

• enclosed lanai decked

• BBQ area

• poolside bar with seating area

• large tiled outside

patio

• internal / external coloured LED decorative lighting

*Features :

• UPVC single-glazed window system throughout

• ceiling fans

• remote controlled electric gate for 4-car covered parking area

• Solar-water

heater (300 litres) stocked glass fish tank

• ground level aquarium

with koi fish

• Tastefully decorated, furnished, and finished to the highest standards

• Solid wood floors upstairs with Polyurethane Finish for easy cleaning and durability

Selling Price ₱120,000,000 or $2,264,150

Cash or Bank Financing

Granted, it is nice but you could buy the same at the same price in regional centres in many developed countries.  

[JJReyes]

29 minutes ago, OnMyWay said:

No idea what they sell for and most sit on the market for months and years.

The ownership of real estate development companies and banks are often one and the same.  Customers' deposits are loaned to the bank chairman's real estate projects and ordinary folks with no connections find it impossible to borrow.  The usual basis for property valuation in the Philippines is land value only.  The improvements are considered secondary.  Many property sales are speculative with buyers hoping to sell the property in the future at a high price.  The smart developers like Ayala Land require their buyers to begin construction within a time period, say two years.  As an incentive, they will rebate a part of the purchase price to go towards construction.

[OnMyWay]

33 minutes ago, BrettGC said:

Granted, it is nice but you could buy the same at the same price in regional centres in many developed countries.  

Exactly!

I'm moving to San Antonio, fairly certain.  There are no houses listed for over 2 million.  This one is over a million and overpriced. Sellers are asking way to high prices still.  Look at the property history on this one.  Crazy!

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/19715-Messina_San-Antonio_TX_78258_M70460-77219

And with this, you get quality, usually guaranteed.

The bottom is falling out of the U.S. market.  I will rent for 2 years, most likely.

[Tommy T.]

Another way to maybe find a "deal," perhaps is through communication of your partner? We (I) bought our land here through information from L and some friends. I have since learned that we (I) bought it at a really good price for the area. There are properties for sale in the area for almost double the price we (I) paid...

But, I will add this...  land and real estate properties, at least here in Davao area, are ridiculous. They seem to be much higher than similar properties would be in USA. I wonder how so many Filipinos can afford these places? Okay okay... I know that so many take out exorbitant loans... but still... Same thing with seeing so many high-end cars cruising around...

I cannot now afford to buy a new car - which L so fervently desires... 1+mln? Get out of here! We would both prefer a small SUV so that it has a bit of height for the frequent flood waters on the roads... A Wigo just won't cut it...

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Tommy T.

[Kingpin]

56 minutes ago, OnMyWay said:

 Most of these are spec houses and I have no idea how the builders finance them while they languish on the market.

Every subdivision has a few mini-Trumps, they get in early and buy a few lots. On one, they build to live. Then they gradually wait as the prices go up. and put the others for sale, often after building a cheaply built but nicely painted house on it.  Now what they paid 8 million for is on sale for 18 million (but they'll take 16!). 

Also see pre-renovated houses for sale, in old ads, and then on the new ads, how that new roof and facade somehow added 10 million php to the price.

Without an MLS it's all just a game that the rich play.

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Kingpin

[Kingpin]

13 minutes ago, Tommy T. said:

 I wonder how so many Filipinos can afford these places? Okay okay... I know that so many take out exorbitant loans... but still... Same thing with seeing so many high-end cars cruising around...

I think the 'middle class taking out loans' is a Western-concept, here it's just old money elites. Even the dumb kid in the family can't help but make money in real estate, there are only like 2 or 3 areas where everyone wants to live and they aren't making any new developments...unlike condos, which are sprouting up everywhere in those cities.

I once saw an ad for a desirable subdivision house at 16m, too good to be true. Turns out it was from last year, the new price is 24m for the same house. Maybe the owner just raised the price (after not selling), or maybe a new buyer flipped it.

I saw another house for sale at 20m, sold in a week, now renting at 95k monthly.

There's a reason they want it all for themselves, no foreigners allowed.

[GeoffH]

1 hour ago, Tommy T. said:

I cannot now afford to buy a new car - which L so fervently desires... 1+mln? Get out of here! We would both prefer a small SUV so that it has a bit of height for the frequent flood waters on the roads... A Wigo just won't cut it...

Have you considered the Toyota Raize?

The E CVT is 831,000 (plus delivery).

They're basically a 'raised' and slightly bigger version of the new version of the Toyota Wigo (which is already on sale in Indonesia) and is a sister SUV under the skin to the Daihatsu Rocky (Daihatsu is a Toyota subsidiary these days).  And being a crossover they've got more ground clearance.

They come with a 1.2 liter engine instead of a 1.0 liter like the Wigo so a little more power too.

There is also a G with some more features for about another 100,000 (still under a million peso though).

This is a link to a review of the G version (there are comparisons of the differences between the E,G & Turbo if you search).

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8AxjH-AvPc

 

 

 

 

[BrettGC]

4 minutes ago, GeoffH said:

Have you considered the Toyota Raize?

The E CVT is 831,000 (plus delivery).

They're basically a 'raised' and slightly bigger version of the new version of the Toyota Wigo (which is already on sale in Indonesia) and is a sister SUV under the skin to the Daihatsu Rocky (Daihatsu is a Toyota subsidiary these days).  And being a crossover they've got more ground clearance.

They come with a 1.2 liter engine instead of a 1.0 liter like the Wigo so a little more power too.

There is also a G with some more features for about another 100,000 (still under a million peso though).

This is a link to a review of the G version (there are comparisons of the differences between the E,G & Turbo if you search).

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8AxjH-AvPc

 

 

 

 

We nearly bought the Raize instead of the Rush.  We were looking at the 1 ltr turbo version.  Nice little unit but at the time we would've had to wait 6-10 weeks for delivery and my back was just about done with trikes so we ended up with the Rush.  

[GeoffH]

Just now, BrettGC said:

We nearly bought the Raize instead of the Rush.  We were looking at the 1 ltr turbo version.  Nice little unit but at the time we would've had to wait 6-10 weeks for delivery and my back was just about done with trikes so we ended up with the Rush.  

The 1 liter turbo does have more power and more safety features and a few extra bits and pieces (nice but more peso).

For those whose budget is tighter there is also the E manual at 751,000 peso.