Online Marriage

[Possum]

It seems only fair to allow online divorce too.

[hk blues]

8 hours ago, Possum said:

 The Online Marriage subject is funny to me. Why would anyone in their right mind marry someone over the internet ,even if legal? Is this a desperation move by one of the parties? God knows there is no reason to be panicking over finding a marriage partner

If you mean an online marriage that followed a purely online relationship than I can agree, mostly.  But, if the online marriage followed a 'normal' relationship but logistics prevent people being physically together I don't see any issue with it.

[craftbeerlover]

8 hours ago, Possum said:

 The Online Marriage subject is funny to me. Why would anyone in their right mind marry someone over the internet ,even if legal? Is this a desperation move by one of the parties? God knows there is no reason to be panicking over finding a marriage partner

If you do not actually (physically) know the person, then I agree one thousand percent.   Having said that, there are a plethora of circumstances that may make an online marriage easier: logistics, quicker, more advantages, hassle free, etc.  

[Hestecrefter]

On 9/20/2023 at 2:23 PM, craftbeerlover said:

I called the consulate in the USA, and asked the question.   Reply:  Philippines does "not" recognize online marriages.   I mentioned that I had heard about it happening and she was quite adamant (polite), "Philippines does not recognize online marriage, the couple must be physically present together"...    Online companies will take your money, and they do have a caveat something along the lines of, 'we can marry anybody, but check with the respective country to make sure your Marriage will be recognized.'   Most countries do recognize online marriages but the Philippines is not one of them. 

I respectfully disagree with the consulate person with whom you spoke, for reasons set out below.

On 9/21/2023 at 5:26 AM, Rooster said:

The Consulate was correct. 

From The Family Code of The Philippines.

Art. 2. No marriage shall be valid, unless these essential requisites are present:

(1) Legal capacity of the contracting parties who must be a male and a female; and

(2) Consent freely given in the presence of the solemnizing officer. (53a)ChanRoblesVirtualawlibrary

Art. 3. The formal requisites of marriage are:

• (1) Authority of the solemnizing officer;

  (2) A valid marriage license except in the cases provided for in Chapter 2 of this Title; and

  (3) A marriage ceremony which takes place with the appearance of the contracting parties before the solemnizing officer and their personal declaration that they take each other as husband and wife in the presence of not less than two witnesses of legal age. (53a, 55a)ChanRoblesVirtualawlibrary

https://chanrobles.com/executiveorderno209.htm

 

 

The FC reference sets out the requirements for a valid marriage performed in the Phils.  It says nothing about recognition of foreign marriages, valid where performed.

On 9/21/2023 at 11:34 AM, Possum said:

 The Online Marriage subject is funny to me. Why would anyone in their right mind marry someone over the internet ,even if legal? Is this a desperation move by one of the parties? God knows there is no reason to be panicking over finding a marriage partner

I, for one, was giving it serious consideration during the almost 2 years the Phils was closed to tourists, which ended on February 10, 2022.  In that two years, I was looking for a way to be reunited with my then gf.  After I left her at the end of 2019, thinking I would be back in the Phils by March, covid thwarted that plan.  However, if one had a spouse living in the Phils, one could gain entrance with a s. 9A visa.  But my gf was not my spouse.  The Filipina spouse from whom I was divorced (after 18 quite satisfactory years together), was a good sport and offered to get me into the Phils as a balikbayan.  That remained possible during most of the lockdown period.  We could fly in, show our marriage certificate, and get in as balikbayans.  But, I was very reluctant to take her up on her offer.  She would be going to the Phils just to get me in the door, then turn around and go back to Canada.  About 2 days of travel, time loss from her work, much inconvenience.  Of course, I was willing to cover all her costs, time loss, etc., plus something for her time and trouble, but still....

So, I researched online wedding very seriously.  

I looked at online videos on the topic that supported that what I was considering was possible.  Here are two examples:

 

In the course of my research, I corresponded with the Philippine Consulate in Vancouver, and received rather more encouragement than craftbeerlover received from the consulate he contacted in the U.S. (and there are many...there was one in LA when I lived there, but there are more, and I suspect not all would hand out accurate information).

One email I received said this:

On Thursday, February 4, 2021, 08:11:52 AM PST, Visa Section <visasection@vancouverpcg.org> wrote:

Per our civil registry section, the Philippine Consulate accepts online marriages if they are valid in the country / state where they were celebrated, subject to verification with the concerned Post (Embassy/Consulate) that has jurisdiction of the entity that issued the marriage certificate and evaluation of documents submitted by the parties involved.

Before issuance of Philippine visa, parties are required to file the Report of Marriage along with the submission of the documentary requirements for the same.  Please refer to the link below for the requirements for the Report of Marriage application https://www.vancouverpcg.org/services/civil-registry/report-of-marriage/ . 

Thank you.

Visa Section

Consulate General of the Philippines
999 Canada Place, Suite 660
Vancouver, BC, Canada V6C 3E1
Telephone Nos.: +1 604-685-1619 / 7645
Fax No.:   +1 604-685-9945
Websites: www.vancouverpcg.dfa.gov.ph; www.vancouverpcg.org

I also contacted a Filipino attorney friend, who was a neighbor when I lived in Manila.  I knew him to be familiar with Phils family law.  He considered that was I was proposing would work.

So yes, Possum, I'll confess to giving serious consideration to a "desperation move".  I did not then, and do not now, see it as all that pathetic.  If you are separated as we were, with few options to reunite, it does not appear to be such an outrageous proposition.

I should add, for the sake of completeness, that Canada will not accept an online marriage for immigration purposes.  For us, at that time, that was of no moment.

[craftbeerlover]

4 minutes ago, Hestecrefter said:

I respectfully disagree with the consulate person with whom you spoke, for reasons set out below.

The FC reference sets out the requirements for a valid marriage performed in the Phils.  It says nothing about recognition of foreign marriages, valid where performed.

I, for one, was giving it serious consideration during the almost 2 years the Phils was closed to tourists, which ended on February 10, 2022.  In that two years, I was looking for a way to be reunited with my then gf.  After I left her at the end of 2019, thinking I would be back in the Phils by March, covid thwarted that plan.  However, if one had a spouse living in the Phils, one could gain entrance with a s. 9A visa.  But my gf was not my spouse.  The Filipina spouse from whom I was divorced (after 18 quite satisfactory years together), was a good sport and offered to get me into the Phils as a balikbayan.  That remained possible during most of the lockdown period.  We could fly in, show our marriage certificate, and get in as balikbayans.  But, I was very reluctant to take her up on her offer.  She would be going to the Phils just to get me in the door, then turn around and go back to Canada.  About 2 days of travel, time loss from her work, much inconvenience.  Of course, I was willing to cover all her costs, time loss, etc., plus something for her time and trouble, but still....

So, I researched online wedding very seriously.  

I looked at online videos on the topic that supported that what I was considering was possible.  Here are two examples:

 

In the course of my research, I corresponded with the Philippine Consulate in Vancouver, and received rather more encouragement than craftbeerlover received from the consulate he contacted in the U.S. (and there are many...there was one in LA when I lived there, but there are more, and I suspect not all would hand out accurate information).

One email I received said this:

On Thursday, February 4, 2021, 08:11:52 AM PST, Visa Section <visasection@vancouverpcg.org> wrote:

Per our civil registry section, the Philippine Consulate accepts online marriages if they are valid in the country / state where they were celebrated, subject to verification with the concerned Post (Embassy/Consulate) that has jurisdiction of the entity that issued the marriage certificate and evaluation of documents submitted by the parties involved.

Before issuance of Philippine visa, parties are required to file the Report of Marriage along with the submission of the documentary requirements for the same.  Please refer to the link below for the requirements for the Report of Marriage application https://www.vancouverpcg.org/services/civil-registry/report-of-marriage/ . 

Thank you.

Visa Section

Consulate General of the Philippines
999 Canada Place, Suite 660
Vancouver, BC, Canada V6C 3E1
Telephone Nos.: +1 604-685-1619 / 7645
Fax No.:   +1 604-685-9945
Websites: www.vancouverpcg.dfa.gov.ph; www.vancouverpcg.org

I also contacted a Filipino attorney friend, who was a neighbor when I lived in Manila.  I knew him to be familiar with Phils family law.  He considered that was I was proposing would work.

So yes, Possum, I'll confess to giving serious consideration to a "desperation move".  I did not then, and do not now, see it as all that pathetic.  If you are separated as we were, with few options to reunite, it does not appear to be such an outrageous proposition.

I should add, for the sake of completeness, that Canada will not accept an online marriage for immigration purposes.  For us, at that time, that was of no moment.

Excellent information, and thanks for sharing!!!

[MotorSarge]

On 9/21/2023 at 8:50 PM, Possum said:

It seems only fair to allow online divorce too.

Is there an online application for kids?

This way when you get the online marriage & divorce there is no online child support..

[Dave Hounddriver]

4 hours ago, Hestecrefter said:

Canada will not accept an online marriage for immigration purposes.

Interesting.  I found I did not need to be married at all to get my common-law Filipina spouse a permanent Visa into Canada.  Whether traditionally married, common-law married, or on-line married, the important thing was to establish a history of a spousal type relationship for a period of time, (one or two years at their discretion).

She got her permanent Visa in Feb 2020 and took her oath of Canadian Citizenship yesterday, Sep 2023.  Point is:  Nobody cared if we had an online marriage.  Perhaps it would have been different if I wanted to stay in the Philippines with her and get a 13a visa?  At that point the Philippine law would probably specify I cannot do that.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Dave Hounddriver

[BrettGC]

5 hours ago, Hestecrefter said:

I respectfully disagree with the consulate person with whom you spoke, for reasons set out below.

The FC reference sets out the requirements for a valid marriage performed in the Phils.  It says nothing about recognition of foreign marriages, valid where performed.

I, for one, was giving it serious consideration during the almost 2 years the Phils was closed to tourists, which ended on February 10, 2022.  In that two years, I was looking for a way to be reunited with my then gf.  After I left her at the end of 2019, thinking I would be back in the Phils by March, covid thwarted that plan.  However, if one had a spouse living in the Phils, one could gain entrance with a s. 9A visa.  But my gf was not my spouse.  The Filipina spouse from whom I was divorced (after 18 quite satisfactory years together), was a good sport and offered to get me into the Phils as a balikbayan.  That remained possible during most of the lockdown period.  We could fly in, show our marriage certificate, and get in as balikbayans.  But, I was very reluctant to take her up on her offer.  She would be going to the Phils just to get me in the door, then turn around and go back to Canada.  About 2 days of travel, time loss from her work, much inconvenience.  Of course, I was willing to cover all her costs, time loss, etc., plus something for her time and trouble, but still....

So, I researched online wedding very seriously.  

I looked at online videos on the topic that supported that what I was considering was possible.  Here are two examples:

 

In the course of my research, I corresponded with the Philippine Consulate in Vancouver, and received rather more encouragement than craftbeerlover received from the consulate he contacted in the U.S. (and there are many...there was one in LA when I lived there, but there are more, and I suspect not all would hand out accurate information).

One email I received said this:

On Thursday, February 4, 2021, 08:11:52 AM PST, Visa Section <visasection@vancouverpcg.org> wrote:

Per our civil registry section, the Philippine Consulate accepts online marriages if they are valid in the country / state where they were celebrated, subject to verification with the concerned Post (Embassy/Consulate) that has jurisdiction of the entity that issued the marriage certificate and evaluation of documents submitted by the parties involved.

Before issuance of Philippine visa, parties are required to file the Report of Marriage along with the submission of the documentary requirements for the same.  Please refer to the link below for the requirements for the Report of Marriage application https://www.vancouverpcg.org/services/civil-registry/report-of-marriage/ . 

Thank you.

Visa Section

Consulate General of the Philippines
999 Canada Place, Suite 660
Vancouver, BC, Canada V6C 3E1
Telephone Nos.: +1 604-685-1619 / 7645
Fax No.:   +1 604-685-9945
Websites: www.vancouverpcg.dfa.gov.ph; www.vancouverpcg.org

I also contacted a Filipino attorney friend, who was a neighbor when I lived in Manila.  I knew him to be familiar with Phils family law.  He considered that was I was proposing would work.

So yes, Possum, I'll confess to giving serious consideration to a "desperation move".  I did not then, and do not now, see it as all that pathetic.  If you are separated as we were, with few options to reunite, it does not appear to be such an outrageous proposition.

I should add, for the sake of completeness, that Canada will not accept an online marriage for immigration purposes.  For us, at that time, that was of no moment.

The point I was trying to make.  As long as the documents are issued by a country with an agreement with the Philippines with regards to marriage.  

[Hestecrefter]

24 minutes ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

Interesting.  I found I did not need to be married at all to get my common-law Filipina spouse a permanent Visa into Canada.  Whether traditionally married, common-law married, or on-line married, the important thing was to establish a history of a spousal type relationship for a period of time, (one or two years at their discretion).

She got her permanent Visa in Feb 2020 and took her oath of Canadian Citizenship yesterday, Sep 2023.  Point is:  Nobody cared if we had an online marriage.  Perhaps it would have been different if I wanted to stay in the Philippines with her and get a 13a visa?  At that point the Philippine law would probably specify I cannot do that.

As someone well versed in Canadian immigration law, particularly in the realm of spousal sponsorship and permanent residence applications, I won't accept that the IRCC will grant a PR visa to anyone who is simply able "to establish a history of a spousal type relationship for a period of time".  When you apply, you MUST apply as: (i) a spouse, in which case you must provide a marriage certificate, proving a valid marriage.  If married in the Phils, that means a marriage certificate issued by the Phils Statistics Authority, on official PSA paper; or (ii) as a common law spouse, which means you must be able to prove at least one year together, meaning living in the same place for that year; or (iii) as a "conjugal partner".  Details are here:

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/family-sponsorship/spouse-partner-children/who-you-can-sponsor.html

If you are married online, Canada certainly DOES care if you are applying as a spouse.  They won't accept it. My source for saying that is here:

Note: IRCC does not recognize marriages performed outside of Canada by proxy, telephone, fax, Internet and other forms of marriage where one or both persons were not physically present at the ceremony. For more information, see Operational Bulletin 613.

I also disagree that one must establish a history of a spousal type relationship "for a period of time, (one or two years at their discretion)".  That would be an outrageous proposition.  On what basis is the discretion to be exercised?  Does it get left to how the particular Visa Officer is feeling that day?  Why would a 1-year rule apply to some, while others must wait 2 years?.  The one-year rule applies to common law relationships alone and it's prescribed by the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.  No discretion involved.

For sure, Canada would not care if you were married online, but were applying under the common law class.  Then the fact of a marriage of any sort would be of no consequence.

 

[Dave Hounddriver]

3 hours ago, Hestecrefter said:

As someone well versed in Canadian immigration law, particularly in the realm of spousal sponsorship and permanent residence applications, I won't accept that the IRCC will grant a PR visa to anyone who is simply able "to establish a history of a spousal type relationship for a period of time".

I did not read the rest of your post, because as someone who has been there, done that, and living the life here in Canada to prove it . .  you sir, are full of it.