Miracles still happens

[Viking]

55 minutes ago, JJReyes said:

Viking, you are probably considered the patriarch of the family if you have P50,000 to loan.  The correct response, culturally, is to refuse repayment if the reason for the loan is noble, such as education or medical.  On the issue of small dole-outs to the extended family, one solution is to give the spouse a monthly fix amount like P5,000 or P10,000.  Once this sum is gone, everyone has to wait until the following month.  Make sure everyone understands the rule.  No advances nor exceeding the monthly budget.

I am definitely not the patriarch of the family, but it happened to be that I was the only one capable of providing that kind of money. We had an agreement that this was a LOAN and I explained that I wanted it back and that it wasn't a gift. If I then refuse to accept it when they want to repay me, what kind of signals would that send you think???? 

Your solution for the extended family is different than ours. Our way is if they want money, they have to work for it. There's always things that needs to be done around the house. Funny enough, there isn't many coming and asking for money anymore. Strange, isn't it? 😉

[Viking]

1 hour ago, Lee said:

One of my pet peeves is the family members inability to simply say thanks for what they do get from us.

That is annoying me too. Not so much for family members, because they have learned, but other people almost never say thanks if they receive something.

It's so easy to do and cost nothing, but is rarely heared.

I guess, it isn't in their culture to say thanks and I actually don't think they understand that we think it's a rude behavior.

[Viking]

1 hour ago, JJReyes said:

The West emphasizes individualism.  In the East, you are part of a village or group.  Since you have more money (resources), the implied responsibility is to share it.  Yes, it is a hand-out culture until you are suddenly the person in need.  The example is suffering a stroke and assistance is needed for daily requirements.  The group will find a nephew or niece to help you.  There might be a small allowance or compensation, but the amount is not anywhere close to the value of the service.  It is understood as a reciprocal obligation.  

Yes, that is how they see it. 

I see things differently and I decide, not them, how I will spend my money.

We have helped a lot over the years, but has gotten tired of it because it's been a one-way street. Almost every time we needed help with something, we were asked to pay for it.

[JJReyes]

11 hours ago, Viking said:

Yes, that is how they see it. 

I see things differently and I decide, not them, how I will spend my money.

We have helped a lot over the years, but has gotten tired of it because it's been a one-way street. Almost every time we needed help with something, we were asked to pay for it.

Yes.  The whole system is illogical from a Western perspective.  There has been changes culturally and many situations are now one sided.

[JJReyes]

11 hours ago, Viking said:

That is annoying me too. Not so much for family members, because they have learned, but other people almost never say thanks if they receive something.

It's so easy to do and cost nothing, but is rarely heared.

I guess, it isn't in their culture to say thanks and I actually don't think they understand that we think it's a rude behavior.

Yes.  It is rude behavior.  I won't justify it.  The best explanation is the political patronage system you see all over the Philippines.  A candidate becomes city mayor and he is immediately besieged by thousands of job seekers.  In cities like Chicago, New York and Baltimore, the holdovers from a previous administration are terminated, but not in the Philippines.  They retain their job, receive their pay or retirement benefits and are then asked to remain at home.  A new person is seated at the desk and the administrative budget for salaries doubles.  No need for a verbal "Thank You."  For the next election, the old and new employees are expected to campaign for the seating mayor as a way to express gratitude for the employment.  

[JJReyes]

12 hours ago, Viking said:

I am definitely not the patriarch of the family, but it happened to be that I was the only one capable of providing that kind of money. We had an agreement that this was a LOAN and I explained that I wanted it back and that it wasn't a gift. If I then refuse to accept it when they want to repay me, what kind of signals would that send you think???? 

Your solution for the extended family is different than ours. Our way is if they want money, they have to work for it. There's always things that needs to be done around the house. Funny enough, there isn't many coming and asking for money anymore. Strange, isn't it? 😉

I was commenting on a hypothetical situation as a commentary on local behavior rather than your specific situation.  It's your money and, "Yes." you make the rules.  Lucky for me, I have richer relatives and the poorer ones avoid asking me for money.  The Americano is "Kuri put" (tight with his money).

[hk blues]

14 hours ago, JJReyes said:

The West emphasizes individualism.  In the East, you are part of a village or group.  Since you have more money (resources), the implied responsibility is to share it.  Yes, it is a hand-out culture until you are suddenly the person in need.  The example is suffering a stroke and assistance is needed for daily requirements.  The group will find a nephew or niece to help you.  There might be a small allowance or compensation, but the amount is not anywhere close to the value of the service.  It is understood as a reciprocal obligation.  

But that's not close to the scenario you described where the "rich" foreigner's wife distributes a monthly allowance to the "poor" relatives.  

I absolutely agree with the culture of helping those in dire need and indeed have, like maybe most of this forum's members, done so but a monthly allowance like a parent giving pocket money to a child, not for me. 

[hk blues]

14 hours ago, Viking said:

I wouldn't for this amount, but I was feeling that it would be harder to "forget" if we had the deal in writing. And in this case it worked!

That's what I would imagine, the threat of possible action in itself possibly makes the agreement worthwhile but actually pursuing an action...I wouldn't.  

[Lee]

5 hours ago, JJReyes said:

They retain their job, receive their pay or retirement benefits and are then asked to remain at home.  A new person is seated at the desk and the administrative budget for salaries doubles. 

I've never seen this happen.

Several family members have worked for the mayor or higher brgy officials over the years and were shown the door quickly when their "guy" lost.

A recent article in the news spoke about how 80K health care workers were dismissed because their "guy" lost----(wifes niece was one of the 80K healthcare workers that were dismissed and still hasn't been called back to work).              This seems to be the norm.

Reinstatement of 80K village health workers sought

Quote

 

MANILA – A party-list lawmaker on Friday urged the local health boards to nullify the termination of barangay health workers (BHWs) who were dismissed without due process after the Oct. 30 barangay and Sangguniang Kabataan elections (BSKE).

BHW party-list Rep. Angelica Natasha Co said the proper petitions and supporting documents are being filed before the local health boards to convince the reinstatement of some 80,000 BHWs.

 

https://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1216102

[JJReyes]

46 minutes ago, Lee said:

Several family members have worked for the mayor or higher brgy officials over the years and were shown the door quickly when their "guy" lost.

I hope the winning government official doesn't mind spending the rest of his life in court or a Department of Labor arbitration panel.