POGO

[craftbeerlover]

1 hour ago, scott h said:

IMO ANY bargaining chip is better than none, hundreds if not thousands of "diplomatic" approaches have yielded nada, zilch, nothing.

I believe that the majority of the pre-pandemic POGO's were legit, in fact I would walk past them almost daily as well as the condos where the "workers" lived. I rubbed shoulders with them in the supermarket. Overall I found them courteous and respectful, just like the vast majority of Filipino OFW workers I have encountered worldwide.

Those are the POGO's that a left, a couple of years ago, due to public pressure, operating costs were raised to make it unprofitable to operate here. The legit POGO's moved to Cambodia and other SEA countries. As I said, the ones that are left operate without license, protected by corrupts officials until they are finally shut down. Notice that in all the recent raids, no "big fish" are caught, just the worker bees.

On this we agree completely! 

My major point is that the Philippines through ineptitude, corruption and mismanagement threw away a golden opportunity. 

Here is an opinion piece about this that just came out in todays Philstar newspaper

To kill a cash cow | Philstar.com 

This is a Pre-pandemic report:  "Manila stopped taking applications for new POGO licences in August 2019, citing concerns about national security, but President Rodrigo Duterte said the next month that he would not ban the industry. " 

To recruit new customers in China, POGOs rely on a large contingent of Chinese workers. They employ at least 138,000 foreigners in the Philippines, most of them from China, according to the Philippine government.

“There might be as many as 250,000, if employees lacking the required work visas are included,” said George Siy, of the Integrated Development Studies Institute (IDSI), a think tank in the Philippines, quoting estimates provided to him by industry insiders.

“Most of them come into the Philippines on tourist visas and overstay them,” said Lucio Blanco Pitlo III, a fellow at the Asia-Pacific Pathways to Progress Foundation, who has researched the topic extensively. The Chinese embassy in the Philippines said in a statement in August 2019 that some of its nationals are “cheated to work illegally with only tourist visas.” 

Last November, Manila expelled hundreds of Chinese nationals who had been arrested in a series of raids against online gaming operations and other cyber crimes in Palawan province, for allegedly working illegally in the country, according to CNN Philippines.

Many Chinese nationals working in the Philippine casino industry are attracted by the promise of jobs not available at home, experts say.

“These are mostly young people, in their 20s, with little job prospects in China,” said Ben Lee. Some are lured to the Philippines with the promise of high-paying jobs in prestigious tech companies, but upon arrival they discover they will be working for an online gambling platform and paid a fraction of what they were promised, he added.

“The workers frequently have their passports confiscated, are crammed 10 to a room meant for three to four people and have to work 12-hour shifts, with only one day off per month,” said Pitlo.  But many employers are not paying up. POGO operators and service providers only paid 579 million pesos ($11 million) in withholding taxes in 2018 – a mere 2.4% of what they owe, according to the Bureau of Internal Revenue.   Between January 2017 and October 2019, Philippine police dealt with 65 cases of kidnap-for-ransom involving POGO workers or casino customers, leading to the arrests of 132 people, according to an official tally provided to CNN by the Philippines police. "    They have been criminal since they have been here

[scott h]

2 minutes ago, craftbeerlover said:

This is a Pre-pandemic report:

You know craft, I guess I should have put this part at the top of my original post:

But due to legislative incompetence, inability of law enforcement to enforce current laws, incompetent or corrupt regulatory agencies they have chased out all the legitimate POGO's 

My main point is that they missed a large opportunity, not that the POGO's should remain.

[craftbeerlover]

6 minutes ago, scott h said:

You know craft, I guess I should have put this part at the top of my original post:

But due to legislative incompetence, inability of law enforcement to enforce current laws, incompetent or corrupt regulatory agencies they have chased out all the legitimate POGO's 

My main point is that they missed a large opportunity, not that the POGO's should remain.

Yes the Government is corrupt and inept, but to believe POGO was ever legit is just not correct.   I know I am beating the proverbial dead horse, but here is another pre pandemic report.   Couple things to key in on (other than the obvious criminality), two of the victims where in the chinese army.   I am not a sky is falling guy, but I do believe this is a very serious issue, and I am thinking/hoping the Philippines Government understands that as well (profits be damned"   https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/philippines/philippines-probes-syndicates-linked-to-offshore-gambling-1.70077773

[scott h]

53 minutes ago, craftbeerlover said:

I know I am beating the proverbial dead horse

As you said, there are certain aspects of this issue we can agree about, and certain aspects where we do not. 

[OnMyWay]

5 hours ago, scott h said:

IMO ANY bargaining chip is better than none, hundreds if not thousands of "diplomatic" approaches have yielded nada, zilch, nothing.l

Scott, correct me if I am wrong, but I think you missed something.

If I recall correctly, all offshore gaming is technically illegal for mainland Chinese citizens to participate in.  The CCP is looking the other way, probably also due the money involved.

However, China is relatively weathy and could shut it all down quickly.  Therefore, they hold all the cards when it comes to POGO operations.

 

 

[Lee]

Another article.

Pampanga POGO yields more Chinese uniforms, sex toys, abandoned pets

Quote

 

More alleged Chinese military uniforms, sex toys, and animals were seized in a Philippine Offshore Gaming Operator (POGO) firm in Porac, Pampanga, which was recently raided for alleged illegal activities including human trafficking, sex trafficking, torture, kidnapping, and scamming.

According to Jonathan Andal’s “24 Oras” report Tuesday, continued inspection of the 46 buildings of the Lucky South 99 POGO compound yielded four more sets of camouflage uniforms with buttons bearing the initials PLA, suspected to be China’s People's Liberation Army (PLA). 

Also recovered were military boots, and belts with an emblem. 

The Presidential Anti-Organized Crime Commission (PAOCC) said the uniforms will be examined for legitimacy. It also said it will check if the names found inside the uniforms will match any of the passports of the arrested Chinese citizens. 

 

 

Pampanga POGO yields more Chinese uniforms, sex toys, abandoned pets (msn.com)

[fillipino_wannabe]

5 hours ago, craftbeerlover said:

Yes the Government is corrupt and inept, but to believe POGO was ever legit is just not correct. 

Some of them probably were, the money they'd make with a successful gambling website is far more than they would kidnapping people. It's the same with the online gambling sites targeting the US/EU, there's random 25 year old streamers being paid the same amount as Lebron James just to stream their gambling a few hours per day.

[craftbeerlover]

26 minutes ago, fillipino_wannabe said:

Some of them probably

Completely agree

[OnMyWay]

On 6/11/2024 at 3:59 PM, craftbeerlover said:

I saw this coming years ago, and mentioned it (maybe even on this forum).   During the last administration millions of chinese flooded into the Philippines.  Doors were left wide open for them to come here legally and illegally.  They completely abused the SRRV system etc etc etc...  My guess at that time was military and organized crime.   Hoping the Government does what needs to be done soon.    Just wondering how far they have already infiltrated. 

https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2024/06/11/2362063/senators-sound-alarm-after-pogo-raid-unearths-alleged-chinese-army-uniform

Brings to mind what what is happening at the U.S. Southern border.  Hundreds (maybe thousands?) of young, fit, Chinese men with sharp military haircuts crossing the border.  The reports I saw interviewed a couple who said they were "looking for a better life", and the reports also said they flew into Mexican airports and then paid their way to the border, arriving in nice SUVs and vans.  Who paid for that?

 

Edited June 12 by OnMyWay

[scott h]

5 hours ago, OnMyWay said:

could shut it all down quickly

Your right, they could. But China has been pestering other countries for years to shut them down. I was merely pointing out that the Philippines has very little that China actually wants. As a bargaining chip, it might be a very small arrow in the quiver, but just about the only one they have