Mindanao And Is Ignorance Bliss

[Gold Heart]

Whenever talk of travel to Mindanao comes up, some people tell me not to go there, others say it is safe. The Filipinos I've talked to about this have ALL told me not to take the chance traveling there. They also warn me to avoid Angeles, and Quiapo and Tondo in Manila. I'll take the word of Filipinos that care about my safety over the word of a foreigner, know-it-all or otherwise, when it comes to where its safe to go and where it isn't. There's plenty of places to see in the world, I can live with not seeing Mindanao.

I don't think you can take either of these inputs with any priority or weight. I'm not suggesting that anyone ignore the value of input from locals or expat "experts". This sounds a bit strange but if you follow the advise of Filipinos, the US state department, etc. you might never even go the Philippines. These inputs must be analyzed by each person and weighed based on perspective, point of view and balance. If I followed my relatives, and wifes advise totally I would never go to the Carbon market here. I do work to understand their input, the basis of their advice and formulate my own opinion and take this into consideration. As a result, I am very guarded and careful during my visits there leaving and protecting any valuables -- but not going would be missing a major part of experincing life and what it is like here. I don't believe there is any place that is totally safe. I believe there are areas that are lower risk and worth visiting in Mindinao. I also believe there are places that represent to great a risk based on the environment and political circumstances.I remember establishing an association with a guy from Connecticut by common interest of our Filipino wives. I had pursuaded them to accompany us on a visit to DC. He had convinced himself and his wife that this was a safety risk and had his wife prepared to clutch her purse guard against mugging. We had the time of our life going on an amazing bike tour of the capital -- that I'm sure they remember to this day.

[Jollygoodfellow]

I think your sounding like one of those Puti Know it all kanos, just my opinion. I think this topic transplanted from LINC was far better covered there than here.The Bukidnon problems you identified are NPA issues. Anyone know of a foreigner being targeted by the NPA?I know of more than a few foreigners who regularly make the road trip to Davao from CDO. I am one, with no problems then again that qualifies me as a Puti Know it all foreigner.More than 40 political killings in the very small island of Masbate this year, lots of NPA etc no warnings about foreign travel. Then take a look at bandit country of north luzon where daily murders take place all linked to local politics.I can only say I find Mindanao safer based upon living and working there for a few years, then again that is what being a Puti foreigner know it all kano is about.Anyone not get the chance to visit Dapitan and Dipolog areas west of the CDO/Davao line is missing a treat and a very safe one at that.perhaps instead of third hand opinions from locals (does that make them Puri know it alls as well )who believe that next village is far far away and in a different time warp forming that judgment. Why not take equal credence with Puti know it all foreigners who live in the places that are marked as unsafe.As for politics ...stay out of it. we have no political rights and if you want to be a victims of all that is claimed then politics is a sure way of achieving it.Then again I am just a full time resident in these parts so what the hell do I know!!As for commonsense avoidance of any areas that are in strife, well that should not come as any surprise to anyone

First let me say that the topic was on here first and was posted by one of our members Manabouttown Here and then Paul was then on here reading and then started the same topic on his forum. I only added to it when someone brought it to my attention that some of you puti know it all guys were telling people how safe Mindanao is when police, news people and many of the locals I know who happen to live there are telling me how it is heading toward a blow up, but I would guess you and some of the others must know better because you have traveled through there on occasion. How long is it that you have been in Mindanao? Is it over the 15 plus year that I have been going back and forth to the Philippines and traveled all around many parts of Mindanao? I have watched the changes over the years, I have been in close contact with military and police personnel who happen to be friends and family and they tell me to stay the heck out of most of Mindanao excluding CDO and some other close in areas, but since you live there and run a bar, then you surely know better than any of them do. Mike I sure hope the day does not come that we read about you or one of the other know it alls being in the wrong place at the wrong time and maybe after the elections things will get better but I seriously doubt it since it has been deteriorating over the last 15 plus years and the NPA and other Muslim terror groups seem to be getting more emboldened and not less, but again since you live in CDO and make your living off the ladies of Mindanao, the locals and the tourist then I guess you really need to make sure people keep visiting to protect your business interests but do not do it at the expense of some newbies that will take your word as the know all and end all because that would just be a wrong thing to do IMO.

One your external link I am the last to post in that thread. I was not trying to come off as a know it all about Mindanao. While I like my wife's home town and would like to start a business there, I know at this time it is not really possible with the current state of affairs. All I was saying is trust what your family says. We had a discussion about my safety and if things got to hot then we were out of there.

EricI don't believe anyone was referring to your post in another thread.:welcome:

[mike]

I think your sounding like one of those Puti Know it all kanos, just my opinion. I think this topic transplanted from "another forum" was far better covered there than here.The Bukidnon problems you identified are NPA issues. Anyone know of a foreigner being targeted by the NPA?I know of more than a few foreigners who regularly make the road trip to Davao from CDO. I am one, with no problems then again that qualifies me as a Puti Know it all foreigner.More than 40 political killings in the very small island of Masbate this year, lots of NPA etc no warnings about foreign travel. Then take a look at bandit country of north luzon where daily murders take place all linked to local politics.I can only say I find Mindanao safer based upon living and working there for a few years, then again that is what being a Puti foreigner know it all kano is about.Anyone not get the chance to visit Dapitan and Dipolog areas west of the CDO/Davao line is missing a treat and a very safe one at that.perhaps instead of third hand opinions from locals (does that make them Puri know it alls as well )who believe that next village is far far away and in a different time warp forming that judgment. Why not take equal credence with Puti know it all foreigners who live in the places that are marked as unsafe.As for politics ...stay out of it. we have no political rights and if you want to be a victims of all that is claimed then politics is a sure way of achieving it.Then again I am just a full time resident in these parts so what the hell do I know!!As for commonsense avoidance of any areas that are in strife, well that should not come as any surprise to anyone

First let me say that the topic was on here first and was posted by one of our members Manabouttown Here and then Paul was then on here reading and then started the same topic on his forum. I only added to it when someone brought it to my attention that some of you puti know it all guys were telling people how safe Mindanao is when police, news people and many of the locals I know who happen to live there are telling me how it is heading toward a blow up, but I would guess you and some of the others must know better because you have traveled through there on occasion. How long is it that you have been in Mindanao? Is it over the 15 plus year that I have been going back and forth to the Philippines and traveled all around many parts of Mindanao? I have watched the changes over the years, I have been in close contact with military and police personnel who happen to be friends and family and they tell me to stay the heck out of most of Mindanao excluding CDO and some other close in areas, but since you live there and run a bar, then you surely know better than any of them do. Mike I sure hope the day does not come that we read about you or one of the other know it alls being in the wrong place at the wrong time and maybe after the elections things will get better but I seriously doubt it since it has been deteriorating over the last 15 plus years and the NPA and other Muslim terror groups seem to be getting more emboldened and not less, but again since you live in CDO and make your living off the ladies of Mindanao, the locals and the tourist then I guess you really need to make sure people keep visiting to protect your business interests but do not do it at the expense of some newbies that will take your word as the know all and end all because that would just be a wrong thing to do IMO.

Reminds me of my days in recruitment with guys telling me they were good to go with 15 years plus of experience. Amazing how many had 15 years plus experience of getting it wrong.I am far from being a puti boy , I leave that to you. You have 15 years off full time quality experience.I would expect that if I or any other kano living in Mindanao came to harm it would be because of any one of many criminal acts that could occur anywhere in the world at anytime. Not because it was Mindanao, not becuse we are white and not because the perp was a Moslem, ASG or NPA. Just a case of wrong time wrong place. Why not do what we do and live here full time that way you will get a far better understanding of the reality of being. the vast majority of people who live and work here native or otherwise have no harmful intent against anyone. what we do have is a few very high profile groups who cause severe problems in local areas.To help your knowledge further, there are boys and girls who work for me in Mindanao. Probably a similar situation in most other places on planet earth, yes even in Mindanao. There are also more than a few expats who live and work in Mindanao full time and do so with no more concern for their safety than most other places. As for business interests you have no idea what you are talking about as evidenced in previous posts where you publicly stated that you just offer an opinion that all bars must be involved in pay offs etc. 95% of my business in numbers is from local native people, moslems and others alike, they reprsent 98% of the profits. the other 5% which is all else from all over contribute about 2% of profits.In saying that I would not wish to go to Basilan or the Sulu area just yet. yet I hope to be able to do so if not this year then next.I could of course stay at home in USA and get gunned down taking my kids to school.

[Jollygoodfellow]

GuysSome of these post to me verge on personal attacks,I would just like to remind ALL members that personal attacks are not permitted on this forum. Everyone is entitled to an opinion no matter what life style,where they live or what business they may own.So lets not get personal. This forum has the benefit of a small number of members where in most cases we can all get along without any problems,I would like to keep it that way.Also from this day on members who reference or add links to other forums or blogs in their POSTS will have the reference removed and the member placed on moderation. I have agreements with owners of other sites where we have redirects or links and that's where it will stay.Anyone who is unsure of what is permitted please contact me.Tom :welcome:

[Mr Lee]

One your external link I am the last to post in that thread. I was not trying to come off as a know it all about Mindanao. While I like my wife's home town and would like to start a business there, I know at this time it is not really possible with the current state of affairs. All I was saying is trust what your family says. We had a discussion about my safety and if things got to hot then we were out of there.

First and most important Eric, I was not talking about you in any way and I was talking about how some white round eyes who live within the Philippines and who do travel around seem to be leading some of the newbies who read these forums to slaughter or at the very least putting them into harms way. I think what a lot of people like those seem to forget is that they have some Mindanao smarts as I will put it, as do you and your family Eric. These others have spent time with the people and they know some of the pitfalls that many of the newbies who read these forums do not, and of whom sometimes take these guys word for it that it will be safe for them. As stated before, I have spent plenty of time in Mindanao and always considered most of it to be safe and while some of the checkpoints that our car has been stopped by did not make me feel warm and fuzzy because I never knew whether it was the good guys in those uniforms or the bad guy and even if it was the good guys, were they going to want a bribe or search our vehicle and cause us some problems or shoot us on the spot because their M16's were often pointed at the car and us and a few times directly at me, and an accidental discharge from one of those M16's could be a reality if a car going by were to backfire or they just slipped by accident. The reality is that as the elections get closer, and yes I have been in the Philippines during elections and gun bans and check points and car searches during said times, things are going to heat up and my advice if someone wanted to bother to read it was that while I would still probably go to places in Mindanao, I would avoid it during this upcoming election and that each person has to decided for themselves what danger tolerance level that person has and what they feel they wish to do, but a new person reading some of those forums who is coming over the the Philippines for the very first time and is starry eyed to meet some lady he has been on the Internet with, does not have the experience level that some of these other people may have and those visitors may not know how to stay out of harms way and what places they should avoid.Gold Hearts example of carbon market it a good one, while my wife and I avoid walking around the Colon area at night or even Carbon Market most times, we do go there with tourists and show them that part of town and we do go there to shop but I would not recommend a new person to town should walk around that area even in the daytime because a new person stands out like they have a target painted on their shirt that says "I am a Newbie" Now I do not mean this to be an attack on new people and we all were new to one thing or another at one time and I still have plenty to learn myself, but new people tend to be naive about their surroundings and would be more likely to get mugged or worse than someone who has been around for a while and knows what to look out for and appears relaxed in their environment and surroundings...... Example, someone sent me an email which lead me to a post on another forum about a person losing their backpack in a fast food place in a mall, and if I am not mistaken by what I read that person was new to the Philippines but had been on that forum for a while and had been told how safe Cebu is yet he did not know enough to make sure to not let that backpack off his back or at the very least have it tied to himself or in sight at all times in one way or another and I am pretty sure that most of us who have been around a while would have never let it happen to us, and another member said that their gf lost her purse by also putting it down on a chair and out of her sight for a second, foolish things that newbies do and because of it the guy lost some important papers that should have never been in the backpack in the first place because important papers belong in a safe place such as a pocket and not in an unattached item. Many forum members do not listen or are told the wrong things because a old timer can get away with more because it has become instinct or second nature to them.Again, everyone has to seek their own level of acceptance of danger and for old timers to tell new people who read the forums that they are totally safe because they did this or they did that, is just plain wrong IMO and they are not being fair to the new people or maybe those old timers do not take into account that new people read their words and take them as gospel. I am not telling anyone to not go to Mindanao, but I am suggesting that they stay away beyond CDO or Davao until at least after the elections and then see how things seem to be going. I read the newspapers and hear direct accounts of grenades being tossed into businesses all the time and bombs going off in public places all the time, Cell towers and buses being blown up etc, and I think Mike trying to make light of the dangers of Mindanao by comparing it to other places is off the mark because I do not know of many other countries except some with the Muslim extremists, where bombs and explosions seem to be a weekly occurrence. You all decide for yourself but there is the MILF, the MNLF, the NPA, Jeremiah Islamah, Abu Sayyaf and a few other terrorist groups operating in and around Mindanao and I really do not know of many other places in the world where so many groups of terrorist operate on a daily basis, that an old timer can say with a straight face is totally safe.Now since Mike brought up the subject of payoffs and I thought I cleared that up before and even sent him a pm apology and explanation of what I meant in an earlier post a while back but it seems he wishes to continue this on the open forum. I do not think that is a good idea but it is totally up to him at this point.

[Sampaguita]

I have been steaming for days and just have to get this off my chest.Why is it that some foreigners move to the Philippines and then think that they know more than us Filipinos who grew up there do? Do they actually think we are stupid and do not know what is going on around us? I get pretty upset with these so called experts when they spout off all they think they know and I can tell that they really know nothing by their own words. Just because someone moves to our country and has lived in it for some years does not make them an expert on everything and it is the attitudes of those people who appear to look down on us Filipinos as ignorant that makes so many of us not like so many of them. The more my husband and I live within the Philippines the more expats we meet and I would have to say that it seems that more of them seem to feel superior and exploit Filipinos and less of them appear to be like my husband who feels we are all equals on earth and treats people that way. I guess some of these people are know it alls from back in their own country and then they come to the Philippines and exploit our people and make their money off us and then think they know it all, but believe me they do not know it all and may someday find out the hard way just how little they really do know about our country and people. I have lived in the US for over 15 years now on and off and we go back and forth to the Philippines yearly and split our time and I am far from an expert on the US and will probably never know as much as my husband or others who grew up here so how do these know it alls who move to the Philippines think they have learned all that there is to learn about my country and how safe certain areas may or may not be since they often cannot even understand what people are saying around them. Get real those of you who think you know it all and know that we Filipinos are not as stupid as some of you may think we are and some of us just tolerate the know it alls to be nice because we are not usually confrontational people. Now please understand that I am not putting all foreigners in this category because I have had the pleasure to meet many who do not fit into this category but the ones who seem to think they are above us know who they are and if the shoe fits then wear it and if it does not then please do not be offended by my words.To get back on topic, I have watched how Mindanao has changed over the years and how it has become more violent and while a good part of Mindanao may be safe under normal times, the upcoming elections will probably not be normal times and I believe that it is not a good time for foreigners to be moving around there. Political tensions are bound to be very high with the upcoming elections and some groups may be fighthing for their actual survival and undereducated Filipinos can get very hot about election topics and especially if they were to be drinking at the time and since a lot of poor hard working Filipinos in Mindanao often pass their time drinking, it would not be hard for a foreigner to end up in the wrong place at the wrong time when some may wish to alter the outcome of the elections and use those foreigners in the process.

[FlyAway]

Had a conversation with the in-laws last night. I mentioned we were thinking of coming for a visit this June. The answer was basically do not come during elections. They live in Kabacan, Cotabato, Mindanao.

[Mr Lee]

Had a conversation with the in-laws last night. I mentioned we were thinking of coming for a visit this June. The answer was basically do not come during elections. They live in Kabacan, Cotabato, Mindanao.

It does not surprise me because everyone I speak to seems to thinks this election is going to be the worst problems of all in the past, from the alleged cheating that went on in the last presidential election to the survival of those who are now in office and will surely be charged by the opposition if they cannot stay in office or their friends do not get into office to protect them, which basically means win at all cost since survival is a very strong driver.While I pray everyone is wrong and that nothing will happen, only time will tell, so why press our luck. I feel that I would be remiss if I did not pass on to members what those who should know are telling me and at the same time no one really knows what will happen and it is all speculating based on intelligence reports and the pieces that seem to be falling into place. One thing to always remember is that just because something does not happen, does not mean it was not planned and then thwarted.

[Mr Lee]

Comelec braces for poll violence. So what is going to stop some of this from spilling over into the streets! by Florante S. Solmerin and Fel V. Maragay THE 2010 automated elections would not be easy a test for democracy, considering the history of election-related violence in the country. “This election is no joke,” Commission on Elections Chairman Jose Melo told reporters during a briefing at Camp Crame after a command conference with the police and military joint chiefs-of-staff. “Our democracy practically rests on this particular election,” Melo said. “There should be no doubt in the minds of the voters on the results of the May polls, or else it would be difficult for credibility to withstand the test and recover from it.” Making the gun ban policy work is crucial to peaceful and orderly elections, the Comelec chief said. The ban seems, “for the first time,” for real. “No exemptions.” Those who were asking for exemptions were “big people, big shots. We had to turn them down.” La Union, Abra, Nueva Ecija, Central Luzon, and some places in Bicol are areas of immediate concern, he said. The campaign period for local elections is 11 weeks away, yet four Nacionalista Party candidates for local positions have already been killed. With the “rising body count,” Senator Manuel Villar, NP president and standard-bearer, asked law enforcement agencies to protect the candidates and stem the tide of poll-related violence. “The authorities should act early. While the climate is heating up, so is the election. If the killings continue, this means the campaign against private armies is not effective. It’s all press release,” he said. On Tuesday, retired police officer Julio Esquivias, the NP candidate in Casiguran, Sorsogon, was shot 10 times by a motorcycle-riding gunman, witnesses said. Killed last week by suspected assassins were Cipriano Albores, former councilman of Kinangan, Malita, Davao del Sur, and an organizer of the Manny Villar for President Movement in the province; barangay captain Wigbert Origines, president of the Association of Barangay Captains and candidate for vice mayor in Taganaan, Surigao del Norte; and barangay chairman Joen Canete, the party’s bet for councilor in Dingras, Ilocos Norte. “Because they can’t be beaten fair and square, they were beaten in a manner most foul. There is no other explanation for their tragic fate other than this: They were killed because they were winning,” Villar said. “That is the tragic story of our so-called democracy: Those who have no chances of winning through ballots are resorting to bullets.” National Police Chief Jesus Verzosa said in a report one of the biggest problems in the elections was the private militia of politicians. “The existing and validated partisan armed groups are 43 outside of the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao. In ARMM alone there are 25 validated groups. So that’s a total of 68. Still for validation on our watch list are 102,” he said. There are 440 election hot spots outside ARMM and 118 for ARMM, or 558 cities and municipalities, according to him. “The main consideration in the watch list is election-related violent incidents. However, there are other parameters, one of which is the presence of intense political rivalry,” Verzosa said. The police would focus on places with intense rivalry between political dynasties, he said. Candidates who keep partisan armed groups involved in violence could be disqualified, Melo said. The role of soldiers would depend on the Comelec’s dictates, military chief Gen. Victor Ibrado said. “Our mandate in close coordination with the police is the dismantling of private armed groups.”Link to this story

[jamesmusslewhite]

I have not ventured south of Surigao City so I can not comment. I do know that I love the Surigao City region and feel safe for myself and my family members here.