Money And Our Extended Families

[Mr Lee]

For those of us who are married to a Filipina or those of us who will be, I am starting this topic in hopes of seeing how others seem to deal with their families and money issues because I feel that I have failed miserably at times along the way. :th_exactly: I honestly do not think anyone is doing their family a favor by just giving money without a purpose for the funds but maybe I am wrong and I am not just talking about the Philippines because I have seen Americans do that with their own children and the kids who are then dependent adults end up lost once their father dies and the mother can no longer afford to keep up the steady stream of support which they have become accustomed to. Note: I am not talking about supporting older parents and that is something that I would have happily done if my wife's parents had still been alive.Let me say that I do not mind giving for real emergencies and I do not mind giving start up money for a business or money for food when some of my wife's family may have little, but I do not feel that it is the correct thing to do to make someone an ATM sitter/junkie who sits all month watching the machine for the next fix. I have had nieces and a nephew who became ATM sitters and who kept checking weekly and sometimes daily to see if more money had been put into the account and the worst part about it was they would use machines other than the bank the money was in so that each time there would be a charge for them checking the balance and I would see it on our account and those fees would end up making the account go below the minimum balance and force me to put in more money and if I put in p100 then they would take that out, so I would only put in the money for the fees and I think that would really piss them off. I had to learn over time that we could just not enable people to become ATM sitters. Since retiring, I have had to cut off most of the often ridiculous requests and only give for the real emergencies and that has upset me as well because some family who may need it and who may have real emergencies have gone the other direction and will no longer ask. I only wish I could have found a balance that worked but it seems either no money or too much money and nothing else seems to work. Very sad for me because I know that we have so much more than they do and I would love to share some but without it being pissed away and I have no idea how to accomplish that since most of our family seem to have the live for today attitude. BTW, I have Filipino OFW friends who also have the same problem with their families, so it is not just us foreigners who have to learn how to deal with this issue.So are we doing our families or Filipinos in general a favor making them dependent on the income we provide so that they may not seek out other ways to earn it themselves. What would happen to them if we were to die or no longer be able to provide the income. I often worried what would happen if God forbid one of the many planes we travel on were to crash or we were to be killed or injured in some other manner or just no longer be able to provide the money.

[Gold Heart]

For those of us who are married to a Filipina or those of us who will be, I am starting this topic in hopes of seeing how others seem to deal with their families and money issues because I feel that I have failed miserably at times along the way. I honestly do not think anyone is doing their family a favor by just giving money without a purpose for the funds but maybe I am wrong and I am not just talking about the Philippines because I have seen Americans do that with their own children and the kids who are then dependent adults end up lost once their father dies and the mother can no longer afford to keep up the steady stream of support which they have become accustomed to. Note: I am not talking about supporting older parents and that is something that I would have happily done if my wife's parents had still been alive.Let me say that I do not mind giving for real emergencies and I do not mind giving start up money for a business or money for food when some of my wife's family may have little, but I do not feel that it is the correct thing to do to make someone an ATM sitter/junkie who sits all month watching the machine for the next fix. I have had nieces and a nephew who became ATM sitters and who kept checking weekly and sometimes daily to see if more money had been put into the account and the worst part about it was they would use machines other than the bank the money was in so that each time there would be a charge for them checking the balance and I would see it on our account and those fees would end up making the account go below the minimum balance and force me to put in more money and if I put in p100 then they would take that out, so I would only put in the money for the fees and I think that would really piss them off. I had to learn over time that we could just not enable people to become ATM sitters. Since retiring, I have had to cut off most of the often ridiculous requests and only give for the real emergencies and that has upset me as well because some family who may need it and who may have real emergencies have gone the other direction and will no longer ask. I only wish I could have found a balance that worked but it seems either no money or too much money and nothing else seems to work. Very sad for me because I know that we have so much more than they do and I would love to share some but without it being pissed away and I have no idea how to accomplish that since most of our family seem to have the live for today attitude. BTW, I have Filipino OFW friends who also have the same problem with their families, so it is not just us foreigners who have to learn how to deal with this issue.So are we doing our families or Filipinos in general a favor making them dependent on the income we provide so that they may not seek out other ways to earn it themselves. What would happen to them if we were to die or no longer be able to provide the income. I often worried what would happen if God forbid one of the many planes we travel on were to crash or we were to be killed or injured in some other manner or just no longer be able to provide the money.

I've always found this topic to be of great interest and commented on this before. With the Philippines being such a poor country, along with a culture of family support, it is likely that our spouses feel an emotional tie if not pressure to help their families. In contrast we come from a culture that values independence. We even expect if from our elderly as we have found places to remove them from family dependence. At the same time, money is at the top of the list of problems in marriages. This is an issue that must be dealt with.I expected to provide some financial support as I love my wife and know my support brings her happiness. I categorize types of support as projects (with a defined objective, cost, and time) and ongoing (the absence of any one of cost, objective, time). I'm most concerned about the ongoing because it is what creates the cycle of dependence. I am one who falls in one of the categories that Lee mentioned as I provide ongoing support to my wifes aging parents. It is treated like a monthly bill, one I put in our budget, plan for inflation, and have in financial plans. I will not undertake any other support that is not a clear project (other than support to my parents-in-law). It could be a medical, legal issue or supporting a relative through school. I've done all these over the years. These project have time and budget limits that cannot be overlooked or bypassed and very specific objectives -- in many cases interim objectives to ensure progress is being made (e.g. school grades) Projects are only supported for immediate family -- Not Aunts, Uncles, et al.While I made a support commitment to my wife before we were married, One of her sisters met and became engaged to American several years ago now. Since we would now have two family members involved in support, I reached out to him in what I thought was a gesture of friendship. I offered to provide support whether it came from me or him in both our names. I did not suggest he had to support or how much -- only that we would do things in both our names. In this way our in-laws and relatives would not show any preference or favoritism based on the amount of support. This offer was not only soundly rejected but I was told in no uncertain terms, that he did not intend to help / support and felt no obligation to do so. He then approached my sister-in-law / his fiancée and made it clear if this was her expectation the marriage was off. I was now a villain as my gesture of friendship about broke up their marriage. I know there are others who have this same view as my brother in law --- and I respect it. However, if it is a good project, funding is genuinely needed, and if it can be afforded, I don't understand why anyone would not help if it makes the one you love happy. Edited January 14, 2010 by Gold Heart
misspellings found

[Mr Lee]

I've always found this topic to be of great interest and commented on this before. With the Philippines being such a poor country, along with a culture of family support, it is likely that our spouses feel an emotional tie if not pressure to help their families. In contrast we come from a culture that values independence. We even expect if from our elderly as we have found places to remove them from family dependence. At the same time, money is at the top of the list of problems in marriages. This is an issue that must be dealt with.I expected to provide some financial support as I love my wife and know my support brings her happiness. I categorize types of support as projects (with a defined objective, cost, and time) and ongoing (the absence of any one of cost, objective, time). I'm most concerned about the ongoing because it is what creates the cycle of dependence. I am one who falls in one of the categories that Lee mentioned as I provide ongoing support to my wifes aging parents. It is treated like a monthly bill, one I put in our budget, plan for inflation, and have in financial plans. I will not undertake any other support that is not a clear project (other than support to my parents-in-law). It could be a medical, legal issue or supporting a relative through school. I've done all these over the years. These project have time and budget limits that cannot be overlooked or bypassed and very specific objectives -- in many cases interim objectives to ensure progress is being made (e.g. school grades) Projects are only supported for immediate family -- Not Aunts, Uncles, et al.While I made a support commitment to my wife before we were married, One of her sisters met and became engaged to American several years ago now. Since we would now have two family members involved in support, I reached out to him in what I thought was a gesture of friendship. I offered to provide support whether it came from me or him in both our names. I did not suggest he had to support or how much -- only that we would do things in both our names. In this way our in-laws and relatives would not show any preference or favoritism based on the amount of support. This offer was not only soundly rejected but I was told in no uncertain terms, that he did not intend to help / support and felt no obligation to do so. He then approached my sister-in-law / his fiancée and made it clear if this was her expectation the marriage was off. I was now a villain as my gesture of friendship about broke up their marriage. I know there are others who have this same view as my brother in law --- and I respect it. However, if it is a good project, funding is genuinely needed, and if it can be afforded, I don't understand why anyone would not help if it makes the one you love happy.

My wife and I have gone down that road of helping and we continue to help in emergencies and by bringing clothing or supplying food when things get bad but we have also tried to send 6 of the nieces and nephews to college and only one graduated and I sort of became the one who was responsible for the others going bad so to speak and then no longer being able to show their faces within the family. I have also been told by other parents of other children we wanted to help go to college that they did not wish to take a chance of their kids going bad as the others had in their opinions. So because of some kids actions, the rest lost a chance to go to college. So did I really help or hurt those families. So what did I learn from all this.If you send a child to college, expect family pressure on them to provide money for the family, so never give too much money at one time and always watch how the money is used. This can be accomplished by giving them an ATM card of our own with the minimum balance locked in by the bank and by watching the withdrawals, but fully understand that the pressure their families will no doubt put on them to share in the spoils may cause them serious stress as was the case with some of the kids we sent to school, even when the family was told that the money was only for school, they still dipped into it like it was their own piggy bank by forcing their kids to give them money which made it hard on their kids to go to or finish school.Next, I will never send anyone to school again who does not get top grades and who also is not working to help pay part of their way. I feel they do not deserve the chance if they do not work hard to pass. I made the mistake of sending one boy to college and he kept needing summer school every year and then a refresher course to take the final test and then did not pass anyway, so in my opinion all that money was wasted and had I been smart from the start and pulled the funds early on if he did not get top grades then I would have saved a bundle of money. While I love the kids and want them to succeed, I do not feel that I did them any favor because without a license and without top grades, businesses will only take those with top grade since there are so many who go to college and apply for the available jobs, so therefore he will never be able to get a good job anyway unless he is very lucky, so he might as well been working the years he was in college IMO.So to answer your question, I will give you some questions, are we really helping people to make them dependent on us? What would they have done if we never married into the family? My thoughts are that they would have found a way to survive and maybe been proud of themselves for doing that. Now I am not talking about emergencies and I am not talking about elderly who might be unable to work due to age or medical issues, but I am talking about able bodied people who could work but no longer feel the need to because why should they when the money is flowing in. We all have our own demons and our own thoughts on issues and I feel that I have done a number of people an injustice by providing money for them which was most often wasted within hours or days and maybe could have been better used to buy land or to build them houses to live in or other things which might have improved all their lives a lot more.

[Gold Heart]

So to answer your question, I will give you some questions, are we really helping people to make them dependent on us? What would they have done if we never married into the family? My thoughts are that they would have found a way to survive and maybe been proud of themselves for doing that. Now I am not talking about emergencies and I am not talking about elderly who might be unable to work due to age or medical issues, but I am talking about able bodied people who could work but no longer feel the need to because why should they when the money is flowing in.

I my humble opinion I think we ARE helping for the most part. Many have found there way to a better life from help that is provided. I know so many who have. While there are kids in the US who actually paid for their own college through working and student loans. (e.g. I did this and also got help from my parents) This option is not available here. They would have no other way to do this without help from family. If the family is unable -- they have no options. Sacrafice from other family members do not provide any pride for the young adult getting the education? The pride comes from their own achievement -- being successful in school and getting their degree. While they may have found a way to survive, they would not have improved their condition without some help. One might suggest a person could work a few years and save for their own college education --- at the salary rate and existing poverty here, this is also almost impossible. Again, If it is "project oriented" with appropriate objectives, requirements, teamwork, and schedule it can work. Objectives make it clear what it is they hope to accomplish and achieve. The requirements and schedule make it very clear what the expectations are and teamwork defines their role as they have obligations in this effort. I've seen many achieve success with this help. I've got one in process and only time will tell. Edited January 15, 2010 by Gold Heart