Warning To Foreigners Investing With Robinsons

[frapal]

To all the prospective buyers, especially foreigners, of property from Robinsons Land Corporation (RLC), I want to relate my experience to warn you of their unfair practice and bad faith.I bought a unit in June 2008, reopen for sale, just a few months before the end of the construction of Tower II Adriatico Place, Ermita, Manila. I was assisted by 2 agents from RLC, who showed me a large studio unit. We checked the floor plan that indicated an area of 40 sqm. I decided to buy the unit at the price of PHP 2.9M payable in 3 installment in 3 months. I was told the unit should be ready by September or at the latest end of the year 2008.We signed the contract of sale and the payment was finished in due time. I was then informed that the unit will be delivered on December 11, 2008. So I traveled from France to come and accept the unit. This is where it all started going wrong, and it's not so much the facts but the attitude and denial of RLC that is revolting and cannot be tolerated.When I met with my agent on December 12 on site to view the unit, we both found out that the unit was in fact not ready to be delivered at all. Neither myself or my agent had been informed.We still went upstairs to check the status. I followed the agents into a unit in construction, far from being finished, no tiles, toilet, etc Then I came out and realised when i saw the door sign that they had just shown me unit 35-C whereas I bought unit 35-B. I wonder what would have happened if I had not noticed their mistake. Anyway agents embarrassingly showed me unit 35-B which was a smaller unit and still far from being finished. Later the engineer on site explained that the 35th floor had been redesigned since my visit in June hence the changes in my unit!!! Thanks for letting me know so quickly. I hold a letter from my agent confirming all these facts. I will post it too.I handed a letter of complain to their head office the day after. Since then I complain and tried everything to convince RLC to compensate me for:- failing to deliver the unit that I viewed during sale phase; I cannot categorically accuse the agents to deliberately show me a wrong better unit during pre-sale phase, but it is still unfair and requires compensation- causing expenses by requesting my trip to the Philippines whereas my unit was still under construction and never informing me of any changes or delay.To cut a long story short, RLC basically ignored my request the first 6 months, then asked me to come see the unit again in June (without apologizing for the delay or even mentioning my complain!). The unit was delivered that time, but it was still not the unit that I viewed during the sale. I didn't accept the unit. They finally addressed my complain, completely denying the incident and the contradicting their engineer when he said and showed that 35th floor had been modified, see below:"Contrary to what has been relayed by your Account Manager and the site engineer when you visited the site,there has been no re-labelling of units in 35th floor of Two Adriatico Place. Please be advised that your attached plan is the typical floor planfor 8th to 34th floor. In this regard, if this plan was referred to during your site visit, Unit 35B corresponds to Unit C of the typical floor plan. Furthermore, the constructed Unit 35B at site has a final measurement of 36.29 sq.m, which is consistent to the Contract to Sell which youexecuted and was notarized on 5 December 2008. In this light, no correction is necessary as it has been determined that the constructed unit is in adherence to your purchased unit."Of course, how could I miss that? RLC agents show me a floor plan with a unit B ticked, but I have to figure out that my unit B is in fact represented by unit C in that floor plan.Yes it is true that the contract says 36.29 sqm, but what prevails, the size in the contract or the size of the unit that RLC agents show to me in pre-sale?Seeing that clearly they were not willing to help solve my problem or ease my painful experience as a customer, I chose to avoid battling years against them in court, and decided to focus on something they could not possible deny. The fact they told me to come receive the unit on December 11, 2008 and that the unit was not ready by any means (I also took pictures to show you the condition).And this is their answer, after months of taking me from Customer Service to Turnover Department and vice-versa:"We reaffirm that the said unit was complete in accordance with the standard deliverables and specifications of the project when it was shown to you in 2008. In line with this, we have reminded you that as stated in our Contract to Sell, the Notice of Availability of the Unit for Turnover shall be deemed conclusive evidence of satisfactory completion the aforementioned unit."This is the most outrageous part. It is like saying, we have done our part and satisfied you as soon as we send you a Notice of Availability, whichever condition the unit is in. Their agent is writing that the unit is not ready on the day I was requested but they insist that the unit was complete just because they sent me a notice!!!This is so surreal and filled with bad faith that it could almost be funny, except that I have already lost lots of time and money in this matter by coming more in the Philippines and having no income from that property that was supposed to be delivered 2 years ago. It also caused me lots of frustration because it's always been the same pattern when I meet any of the staff at their headquarters. They listen to me, tell me they understand and will do their best, but then they come up, after some time, with the same insulting answers.Now at least I would like my experience to help other potential targets of Robinsons Land Corporation. They are excellent in pre-sales, reach their peak in sales. Then they seem to be ok when no matter arise but will do anything to deny their responsibility if any trouble (interestingly I have found the same pattern with Cebu Pacific, which happens to be a sister company). I think they know we are foreigners and that would not be convenient for us to sue them, so they use this to their advantage. There is still one thing we can do before we sue: we can inform all our networks about their practice. I have met other owners not happy with their practice. They obviously do not care about our complaints. But they certainly care about their market share and annual results. So let's spread the word and affect those.

[Mr Lee]

To all the prospective buyers, especially foreigners, of property from Robinsons Land Corporation (RLC), I want to relate my experience to warn you of their unfair practice and bad faith.I bought a unit in June 2008, reopen for sale, just a few months before the end of the construction of Tower II Adriatico Place, Ermita, Manila. I was assisted by 2 agents from RLC, who showed me a large studio unit. We checked the floor plan that indicated an area of 40 sqm. I decided to buy the unit at the price of PHP 2.9M payable in 3 installment in 3 months. I was told the unit should be ready by September or at the latest end of the year 2008.We signed the contract of sale and the payment was finished in due time. I was then informed that the unit will be delivered on December 11, 2008. So I traveled from France to come and accept the unit. This is where it all started going wrong, and it's not so much the facts but the attitude and denial of RLC that is revolting and cannot be tolerated.When I met with my agent on December 12 on site to view the unit, we both found out that the unit was in fact not ready to be delivered at all. Neither myself or my agent had been informed.We still went upstairs to check the status. I followed the agents into a unit in construction, far from being finished, no tiles, toilet, etc Then I came out and realised when i saw the door sign that they had just shown me unit 35-C whereas I bought unit 35-B. I wonder what would have happened if I had not noticed their mistake. Anyway agents embarrassingly showed me unit 35-B which was a smaller unit and still far from being finished. Later the engineer on site explained that the 35th floor had been redesigned since my visit in June hence the changes in my unit!!! Thanks for letting me know so quickly. I hold a letter from my agent confirming all these facts. I will post it too.I handed a letter of complain to their head office the day after. Since then I complain and tried everything to convince RLC to compensate me for:- failing to deliver the unit that I viewed during sale phase; I cannot categorically accuse the agents to deliberately show me a wrong better unit during pre-sale phase, but it is still unfair and requires compensation- causing expenses by requesting my trip to the Philippines whereas my unit was still under construction and never informing me of any changes or delay.To cut a long story short, RLC basically ignored my request the first 6 months, then asked me to come see the unit again in June (without apologizing for the delay or even mentioning my complain!). The unit was delivered that time, but it was still not the unit that I viewed during the sale. I didn't accept the unit. They finally addressed my complain, completely denying the incident and the contradicting their engineer when he said and showed that 35th floor had been modified, see below:"Contrary to what has been relayed by your Account Manager and the site engineer when you visited the site,there has been no re-labelling of units in 35th floor of Two Adriatico Place. Please be advised that your attached plan is the typical floor planfor 8th to 34th floor. In this regard, if this plan was referred to during your site visit, Unit 35B corresponds to Unit C of the typical floor plan. Furthermore, the constructed Unit 35B at site has a final measurement of 36.29 sq.m, which is consistent to the Contract to Sell which youexecuted and was notarized on 5 December 2008. In this light, no correction is necessary as it has been determined that the constructed unit is in adherence to your purchased unit."Of course, how could I miss that? RLC agents show me a floor plan with a unit B ticked, but I have to figure out that my unit B is in fact represented by unit C in that floor plan.Yes it is true that the contract says 36.29 sqm, but what prevails, the size in the contract or the size of the unit that RLC agents show to me in pre-sale?Seeing that clearly they were not willing to help solve my problem or ease my painful experience as a customer, I chose to avoid battling years against them in court, and decided to focus on something they could not possible deny. The fact they told me to come receive the unit on December 11, 2008 and that the unit was not ready by any means (I also took pictures to show you the condition).And this is their answer, after months of taking me from Customer Service to Turnover Department and vice-versa:"We reaffirm that the said unit was complete in accordance with the standard deliverables and specifications of the project when it was shown to you in 2008. In line with this, we have reminded you that as stated in our Contract to Sell, the Notice of Availability of the Unit for Turnover shall be deemed conclusive evidence of satisfactory completion the aforementioned unit."This is the most outrageous part. It is like saying, we have done our part and satisfied you as soon as we send you a Notice of Availability, whichever condition the unit is in. Their agent is writing that the unit is not ready on the day I was requested but they insist that the unit was complete just because they sent me a notice!!!This is so surreal and filled with bad faith that it could almost be funny, except that I have already lost lots of time and money in this matter by coming more in the Philippines and having no income from that property that was supposed to be delivered 2 years ago. It also caused me lots of frustration because it's always been the same pattern when I meet any of the staff at their headquarters. They listen to me, tell me they understand and will do their best, but then they come up, after some time, with the same insulting answers.Now at least I would like my experience to help other potential targets of Robinsons Land Corporation. They are excellent in pre-sales, reach their peak in sales. Then they seem to be ok when no matter arise but will do anything to deny their responsibility if any trouble (interestingly I have found the same pattern with Cebu Pacific, which happens to be a sister company). I think they know we are foreigners and that would not be convenient for us to sue them, so they use this to their advantage. There is still one thing we can do before we sue: we can inform all our networks about their practice. I have met other owners not happy with their practice. They obviously do not care about our complaints. But they certainly care about their market share and annual results. So let's spread the word and affect those.

Very unusual for a first post on a forum but I allowed it anyway for the time being and it is my hope that you will at least introduce yourself in the introduction section so members can have a better idea about you and why you purchased a unit sight unseen. As for me, I always say let the buyer beware and in hand I trust, so I would never buy anything that I cannot physically see completed prior to my purchasing it because I have read horror stories such as yours many times in the past and I have even read about things such as this that happen in first world countries and the main problem is that many of us from those first world countries rely on the fact that we have recourse in our home countries, while none is usually available to us in the Philippines and even if we were to take a large corporation to court, the courts would most likely find in their favor even if we were 100% correct in our complaints. It is foreigner against local and local will almost always win unless the foreigner happens to have the correct connections and even then the cost to cure would hardly make it worth while.So again as I always say, this is the Philippines and how things are most often done here so we all either have to get used to it or not put ourselves in a position to be screwed and tattooed. I guess in the end you will do alright because the value of your unit should go up once the project is completed, so even though it has caused you a lot of aggravation, my guess is that the price has already gone up since you purchased it, so hang in there and just accept that they got you and not much else you can do about it except what you have just done IMO.

[frapal]

Hi LeeThanks for the quick answer. I agree with you regarding lawsuit and that is why the best I can do is relate my story and create awareness of their practice. By the way, how do I edit my post? I cannot see an edit button anywhere.ThanksFrank

[frapal]

Oh, I forgot to answer your questions. I bought a unit because I liked Manila and I thought it would be a nice investment. I also thought I was not taking risk since I actually saw the unit before I bought it. It was still under construction but it was there. But they still managed to fail and it's not so much the failing but their attitude that I abhor.

[Mr Lee]

Oh, I forgot to answer your questions. I bought a unit because I liked Manila and I thought it would be a nice investment. I also thought I was not taking risk since I actually saw the unit before I bought it. It was still under construction but it was there. But they still managed to fail and it's not so much the failing but their attitude that I abhor.

Hi Frank and welcome to the forum.New member cannot edit their posts, so stick around and post and before long you will be a full member.As for the topic at hand, my wife and I own some condos in Cebu so I have already learned that dealing with builders can be frustrating but we signed the papers and gave the money due under the contract and they handed me the key and that would be the only way that I would ever buy a property anywhere and especially in the Philippines, because I am cognizant of the fact that I am an outsider and even my wife is not from the elite of the Philippines so she too would be considered an outsider and especially because her last name is no longer a Filipino one. 

[Mr Lee]

Oh, I forgot to answer your questions. I bought a unit because I liked Manila and I thought it would be a nice investment. I also thought I was not taking risk since I actually saw the unit before I bought it. It was still under construction but it was there. But they still managed to fail and it's not so much the failing but their attitude that I abhor.

Well I think in the end it should still be a good investment unless something unforeseen should happen, so good luck with it once the dust settles. 

[UZI]

Oh, I forgot to answer your questions. I bought a unit because I liked Manila and I thought it would be a nice investment. I also thought I was not taking risk since I actually saw the unit before I bought it. It was still under construction but it was there. But they still managed to fail and it's not so much the failing but their attitude that I abhor.

Well I think in the end it should still be a good investment unless something unforeseen should happen, so good luck with it once the dust settles.

Frank,With respect, I think I see where your main problem lies "which is consistent to the Contract to Sell which you executed and was notarized"Why oh why did you sign a contract without careful reading. This applies anywhere but more so when in a foreign country where legal issues may be different than our home country. I for example would not buy in France without careful reading and checking.It is also standard practice when in pre selling, to show buyers 'typical' property with a floor plan that represents the same as the purchased unit.A good example for all of the 'Buyer beware' warning.As Lee said though, should still be a good investment.Uzi.

[Tom in Texas]

It is also standard practice when in pre selling, to show buyers 'typical' property with a floor plan that represents the same as the purchased unit.

Frapal,Sorry for your experience. While some on this Forum may disagree with me, it appears to me that "outright fraud" is what is considered to be "normal business" in the RP.While looking for housing for some of my wife's family, I happened to look at some nearby townhouses that were under construction (not for the family, but possibly as a starter place for my wife and I).I was shown a very nice, well furnished and equiped townhouse - tile flooring, two-tone textured walls, granite counter tops, etc. They told me there were several units near completion, so I asked to see the largest of them and asked for the selling price... ... the price sounded reasonable, but an hour later I was no closer to seeing the unit, still going in pointless circles with agents wanting me to post a deposit on an unseen unit "that was just like this one," (fat chance) and listened to the two agents talk to each other in Visayan endlessly before giving me yet another meaningless answer to any question I asked.Tough questions - like - "where is the unit? Can you just point out the window at it? Can you put an x on this site plan where it is located? Do you even know where the unit is? etc. etc."I walked out and was getting back into the trike when one of the agents ran out and said he would take me to the unit. A few minutes later, I was standing in an empty concrete shell of a townhouse, no flooring, no cabinets or counters, no fixtures of any kind... just bare concrete. Very similar to the pics you posted... actually worse, as your pics do show some tile, fixtures, etc. This was the "completed unit" that was "ready for sale" at the quoted price.It would have taken me at least as much as the quoted sales price to bring the unit up to a habital condition. If I had been foolish enough to put down a deposit... it would have been lost, or I would have been stuck with a half-finished townhouse. RP or U.S. or the moon, this was attempted fraud. The fact that the RP is a third world country does not make it otherwise... and is part of the reason the RP remains a third world country.I agree with Lee... I would not buy squat in the RP that I could not see, touch and feel (get your minds out of the gutter , we're talking real estate here)... and would not spend more for anything than I could live without if I lost it. Good luck with your investment.Tom in Texas Edited August 13, 2010 by Tom in Texas

[Call me bubba]

.i would suggest that you also use other web sites to post your compliant. compliant board.com? i am not sure of ones listed on the web. but, maybe if you post enough complaints someone may,assist you. I tell myself "you can always choose your friends BUT not your neighbors" also why not record your conversations when speaking. i have done this and its been helpful in my actions with local firms.BUT please check the law regarding phone recording... last item is to purchase a property law book or some type of legal reference for your protection. when I had that in my possession,asking this firm, where is the rule/code. they quickly changed their stance, which worked in my favor . wish you luck,

Edited February 19, 2011 by Mr. Lee
remove one link as it appeared to be advertising and new members should not post links

[Art2ro]

It really irks me when investors/developers/sales polices of homes or condo marketeers push their financing schemes on the buyers way different from what selling practices are in the U.S. and other 1st world countries. Here in the Philippines they seem to want the bulk of the buyer's money up front or in a short financed term loan with in just less than a year to pay! It seems the investors won't put their own capital to finish their own projects, but instead forces it upon the buyer! Last year when I made a trip into Manila on business headed to the U.S. Embassy in a rented vehicle with driver, I had the time to observe many high rise condominium construction projects that seemed to look rundown from neglect for the reason that it looked like that construction has ceased for some time and the building site looked vacated! I pity those buyers who all paid in full for their units and the project never got completed! We somewhat paid most of our money up front when we purchased our yet to be built home, but lucky for us our developer was reputable and completed the construction of our home as stated in our contract! We've now been living in our home for 10 years now and our area has boomed and has developed nicely into an upscale suburb! (see link below) http://www.google.co...iw=1260&bih=664