Losing Face

[roy2cebu]

It's not so much about how much I was scammed....my whole point here is to stop promoting them as a special breed that is more friendly and welcoming as anyone else in the world because they are not. They are no different to any other race in the world although my experience of their underhandedness is more prevalent than any other country I've visited apart from Vietnam.

[Old55]

It's not so much about how much I was scammed....my whole point here is to stop promoting them as a special breed that is more friendly and welcoming as anyone else in the world because they are not. They are no different to any other race in the world although my experience of their underhandedness is more prevalent than any other country I've visited apart from Vietnam.

Not to pick a fight with you or to say you are incorrect Roy but respectfully in my experience Filipinos are more friendly generally than others. I'm just saying in my experiences this it true. I have also know there is a dark side to their society as well, the exception to the rule.

[roy2cebu]

It's not so much about how much I was scammed....my whole point here is to stop promoting them as a special breed that is more friendly and welcoming as anyone else in the world because they are not. They are no different to any other race in the world although my experience of their underhandedness is more prevalent than any other country I've visited apart from Vietnam.

Not to pick a fight with you or to say you are incorrect Roy but respectfully in my experience Filipinos are more friendly generally than others. I'm just saying in my experiences this it true. I have also know there is a dark side to their society as well, the exception to the rule.

No probs, point taken of your experiences.

[BobNChe]

We only have 8 fattener pigs we're raising left, which we'll sell in April, and then take a break from raising pigs, so my wife informed the farm manager she would be let go at the end of March. That means moving with her family off the farm as well. Rather than being grateful that we buit them a native house on the farm (prior they had been separated, husband in the mountains and wife at the parents house), or that we paid her double what we were expected based on local wages (6k rather than 3k/month), or that I employed her brothers for construction, gave my used pair of Addidas to one brother for basketball, and bought the other brother an entirely new pair (first shoes he's ever had in his life actually), or that we trusted her advice and nearly ran the farm and our own finances into the ground because my wife took her word on things (I always knew it was a mistake, but the wife had to learn the hard way).........Dispite all of that, AND INSPITE OF us finding out that she has been skimming off the top of farming expenses while we were abroad (as I knew would happen)....Her mother and her still spread a rumor around town that I stopped supporting my wife financially from abroad, and that my wife hadn't paid the nannies for two months. Now people are asking our nannies if they're going to quit because of what my wife is doing, and they're free to assume that she cheated on me since I'm not sending money anymore (even though I sent money last week). So my wife is now going to file a case against them for slander or whatever it's called, and they'll all have to meet at the town hall and have it out in front of the judge. My wife said it's the second time that mother has been charged with "spreading gossip". lol......Oh yeah, after I left for Taiwan, the farm manager tried to lie about not getting paid to my wife, but I corrected the situation by allowing her to save face, but not giving in. I was back on a visit and told her that it's time we use payment receipts, and with all of the money changing hands due to the pigs, it's easy to get confused.... but I know that I paid her, so I couldn't pay her again, but I would give her an advance on her Feb salary (by one day). Oh yeah.... and we lent them 7k to lease land in the mountain for a garden plot. All that and they still have the nerve to spread lies, and then come and bag for rice, which my wife gave them. Saving face...... it could've been so much simpler. Just say the truth, that Mike isn't making as much money as in Korea, so they had to scale back the farm and focus on the 3 pregnant sows for now instead of the larger growing operation. Maybe when they have money and a better plan for how things actually work, they might start up again. But no..... that would make too much sense.

Unfortunately this is VERY commonplace! Very sad as well. If you are too kind and generous, it will only bite you in the ass in the long run. be tough and don't give a Peso extra, they will respect you for that and be better employees!The saving face thing here is all a crock. It is simply false pride and over inflated egos. Edited March 28, 2011 by Kuya Lee
remove unnecessary word

[roy2cebu]

The saving face thing here is all a crock of sh**. It is simply false pride and over inflated egos.With a big dose of hypocrisy thrown in.

Edited March 26, 2011 by roy2cebu

[Mr Lee]

The saving face thing here is all a crock of sh**. It is simply false pride and over inflated egos.With a big dose of hypocrisy thrown in.

I believe it is more about the machismo that was learned under the Spaniards. It is a shame that most of us have such a hard time when dealing with issues here, and I have found many times when I asked someone if they understood, they would say yes, but not really have any idea what I told them, because I spoke too fast or too slang as they put it. They learn too, and the second or third time I dealt with them, there were no longer any issues. Life is what we make it, so I find it is best to not take it too serious, and if we cannot get along with certain people, then we just do not have anything to do with them, and I do not limit those ideas to just Filipinos. Lets face it, back home we surely did not get along with everyone either, and most Americans I have met during my life were only interested in knowing me for what they thought I could do for them, and then when they realized I couldn't, or wouldn't, they were gone. Possibly you found the same thing in your home country?

[roy2cebu]

Hey, I'm no Holy Joe but perhaps it's a culture shock thing for me that causes my resentment and makes me scoff at this 'Filipino wonderful breed' thing. Brought up in a good family, socialised with good people so never really encountered 'underhandedness'.Then spent last 16 years married to a Filipino, sacrificed a lot of things helping her help the family who turned out to be a bunch of c u next tuesdays. Which has cost her a marriage now cos I wouldn't put up with it anymore, as lovely as she 'seemed'.It has cost me a lot more than money....it stole my life and personality.So, when I come here, still trying to do the best thing and find myself being threatened with child abuse by some sick bitch, ripped off at every available opportunity, blatant lieing, blah, blah, blah....please forgive me for finding the 'wonderful, friendly, welcoming' thing a ," crock" , as said by a previous poster.As I said, I'm no Holy Joe but believe my heart is good most of the time and the unfortunate thing is that the crap this 'wonderful breed' keep pulling will eventually harden that heart and it will be a case of eff 'em.I will survive here...will just be more alert and 'harder hearted'.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Kuya Lee
remove unnecessary word

[RetiredNavyGuy]

Hey, I'm no Holy Joe but perhaps it's a culture shock thing for me that causes my resentment and makes me scoff at this 'Filipino wonderful breed' thing. Brought up in a good family, socialised with good people so never really encountered 'underhandedness'.Then spent last 16 years married to a Filipino, sacrificed a lot of things helping her help the family who turned out to be a bunch of c u next tuesdays. Which has cost her a marriage now cos I wouldn't put up with it anymore, as lovely as she 'seemed'.It has cost me a lot more than money....it stole my life and personality.So, when I come here, still trying to do the best thing and find myself being threatened with child abuse by some sick bitch, ripped off at every available opportunity, blatant lieing, blah, blah, blah....please forgive me for finding the 'wonderful, friendly, welcoming' thing a ," crock of sh**" , as said by a previous poster.As I said, I'm no Holy Joe but believe my heart is good most of the time and the unfortunate thing is that the crap this 'wonderful breed' keep pulling will eventually harden that heart and it will be a case of eff 'em.I will survive here...will just be more alert and 'harder hearted'.

I got the impression that she may have just been trying to warn you, not threatening you. However, I wasn't there, so I can't make an accurate assessment.Your comment about culture shock may well be valid. I think most of us go through that to varying degrees. I will never forget my first trip here in 1966.

[roy2cebu]

Warning or threatening...doesn't matter. It hurts and bewilders you when you simply buy a dozen kids or so a p1 pack of nuts now and again during the karaoke session, to be friendly and then leave with such a comment in your ears.

[ekimswish]

I agree with everyone on here... Everybody who has posted has been right on the money. I've experienced all of those things and feelings, the positive and the negative. I think Lee is right, that if you make the cultural adjustment, such as re-phrasing something to not be so direct, as I did when I told my employee that I know I paid her but it's easy to be confused with the money always changing hands, that things go better for you. I also agree with Roy that promoting Filipinos as some "super-breed" of "species" that are friendlier than anywhere else, is BS. I think Filipinos are very friendly people, but they're also poor as crap (read: angry). They've been run over by foreigners most of their modern history, and before Europeans, they were a bunch of periodically trading and periodically warring islands, who prboably kidnapped wives and enslaved each other as sport. I meet some Filipinos who are very friendly to me. I also meet a lot who I can tell dispise me, or does it just seem that way because they're shy and never learned English well? I'm sure both are true at different times. What I can say about "saving face" is that it's an instrument of peace at the best of times, and a declaration of war at others. In the Philippines, a country as I mentioned that was deeply divided and war-like within itself before Europeans, people are super quick to grab the closest sharp object and go for the kill when insulted. That's why it's so important NOT to insult people. Saving face, even if it means givng your own face, is simply a way of pacifying a potentially deadly situation. It's well worth it in that sense. But like all things human, it gets corrupted and abused by people with over-inflated egos and a sense of pride. These are people who were born Deeply Introspective Cultrually Kangaroo-like Supermoms in any country (thanks for the idea Roy.... I loved the way you put it earlier). What can you do? They're everywhere. As it turns out in our own situation, my wife is going to have a mediated session with the employee and her mom tomorrow rather than pressing charges. What it appears happened is that the mom was asking money from the daughter who works for us, and not wanting to give her mother money, the daughter lied that she hadn't been paid! lol...... So pissed off that her daughter wasn't being paid, she started talking shiet about us, as I would do, too, if someone abused my kids. So they'll have a sit down tomorrow and resolve the situation. My wife was also summoning the two women who were disseminating the gossip, but they panicked and apologized a lot. One of them had "high blood" or something... lol....It's funny and slightly unnerving to see the tough type of woman I married. It's kind of a turn on actually... She's like Xena - Warrior Princess. Sexy. Last thing, the people in our neighborhood will respect this move, since we had every right to be angry, but are now showing a bit of mercy. It actually makes us look good, so I'm told. But had we done nothing, we would've been seen as easy targets.

Edited March 26, 2011 by ekimswish