American Killed In Sanciangko/ Cebu City

[Mr Lee]

When one plays with fire, then they are likely to get burnt. I am sorry but I have many nieces who are under 18 and I have as much in common with them as I would have with a tree. I do not think a 76 year old would have anything in common with an under 18 year old, other than sex. In fact I do not think he would have anything in common with anyone over 18 and under say age 35 or so, but at least that would be legal age. Now on to the topic of him possibly just sending her to school. In Bruce's case, he forget to mention that he has a local woman and family as a buffer between him and those he is sending to school, so if done in that way, then I guess it can be accomplished without too much backlash, yet as he said, I have warned him to not be alone with any of those kids because of the law, and because someone might take his kindness as if he has other reasons for doing what he is trying to do. Now let me step back a step and ask you all, if you decided to do the same thing for an underage stranger back home, what might people think your motives might be. Now take that distrust and those unkind thoughts people might have, and multiply them ten fold when a foreigner tries to do that for a local underage girl, or even boy who he has no connection with in the Philippines. Yes the family and others will no doubt think he has other motives, and that alone might get him salvaged. It is good to have a kind heart, yet self preservation should be number one when living in a foreign land. So again I will say, when there are so many over 18 year old single ladies in the Philippines, and with many of those looking like they are 15, why does a 76 year old need to mess with a 16 or 17 year old, beyond perverted sexual desires. So you can all come up with all the possible reasons why this guy could have just been helping out, but I would be willing to bet money that there was one reason, and one reason alone, he was a pervert, and no matter what, his having that relationship (whatever it was) with that young lady got him killed. I am sorry but we can try to justify nature all we want, but facts are facts, and 70, 60, 50 or even 40 year olds have little in common with underage kids. I was 46 and my wife was 26 when we married, and I had much concern about our age difference then, but she was a mature woman who was working and earning her own money, and she had her own bank account, so not a kid who still did not know what she wanted out of life. Also the law is the law and years ago there were no red traffic lights or stop signs, but we have to stop for them now that they are there or face the consequences. add. To those of you who have such relationships with over 18 year old ladies and it works for both of you, more power to you, but IMO those that work long term would be few when compared to with ladies who are at least in their 20's and above.

Edited April 4, 2011 by Kuya Lee
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[gapotwo]

even if the legal age of consent was21 for example, the guy would still be a scumbag in my book. 21 and 76 =this guys not too sharp, and neither is she. then again he could have been setup and robbed and just getting manicures from her, only he will know and he aint around to tell, and i dont think that she will tell the truth either.we will only know what the media wants to report and what is released to the public from the investigations. manicures my arss!!! you figure it out .:(

[Jollygoodfellow]

The media says he was in a relationship,what is a relationship?A relationship could be one of just helping someone through life without being in love or having sex. Come on,how many 76 year olds are out there having sex?If the Philippines media or any media for that matter told you the sky is falling would you run to the window to look?

[Inspector]

Just a quick comment regarding the "in common" theme Lee presents.I have to disagree to a point, simply because the cultures themselves are so uncommon that suggesting age as a factor in something in common or not is a weak argument if you indulged in a completely different culture to begin with. Hell, I can present the further case that without sex period, men have about as much in common with woman as Muslims and Catholics do...but the earth had only Muslim woman, and Catholic men...there sure would be a common ground.:lol:

[Jake]

I want to get a bit technical here. There are man made laws and then there are biological laws. The two do not often mix well. The dead man can be labeled a perv or sexpat or pedo all day long. However good it may feel to throw those words around..... he is not a pedo. Keep in mind I am being technical here and I am not supporting what ever he was doing or not doing. I have no direct knowledge. Here in the US, we have a mismatched arrangement of man made laws that end / start on the state border. What is perfectly legal in one state can get you serious jail time by crossing the state lines. As an example, in South Carolina, the age to marry used to be 14. I do not know if they changed it, but as of a few years ago, 14 it was. Man made laws...........The number 14 is an interesting number. I have not had sex with a teenage girl since I was a teen aged boy, so we are talking 35 + years here..... But, (that BUT is an important point....) But I have reason to believe that the majority of readers of these posts can trace their family lines back 5+ generations. Some many generations further back than that. Sooner or later, in looking back at your family tree, you will come across family members that were married and having families at 14. BIOLOGICAL LAW. Let me head you off at the pass as they say out west.... Don't start saying anything about 'it was normal back then... it was accepted back then... people did not live as long back then....' Biological laws change very very slowly. Going back 100-200 years is nothing. What was accepted 'back then' is still accepted today, BIOLOGICALLY speaking that is. There is a HUGE difference between a true pedo which is marked by sexual excitment with PRE pubescent boys / girls and simply looking for the young (post pubecent) mates. Differently wired brains. So, back to the instant case. The dead guy was 'in a relationship' with a 16 yr old. NOTHING has been printed about his prowling the streets looking for younger or more and more girls. If this guy was a true sex addict or had other issues, then I am sure the media would have plastered that out for all to read.I pay the school fees for about 6 kids + - depending who drops out or asks for assistance. Between 8 to college level kids. Boys and girls. But I have no actual physical relationship with any of them. However, there are those who might think that why should some Kano waste is money.... unless he is getting something.But 'it' is there if that is 'your thing', as the grandmother of a 14 yr old girl (there is that number again) has hinted around that the family is not against me spending some more time (and money) with her. And I believe it gets back to family dynamics. That grandmother was a Mama San many years ago I have been told. I am guessing here that in order to be bestowed the title of Mama San and the associated responsibilites, one must first apprentice as a GRO. Her adult son, a part time security guard and the father of the 14 yr old girl is in an interesting relationship with his wife in that she also lives with another man, part time 3 hrs bus ride away. As long as that other man sends a monthly rice allowance, the girl's mother is allowed to split her time up between the 2 men. Now, nobody tell Lee this, but I actually listen to what he says (sometimes). So I make sure I am never actually alone with the kids, which is not that hard to do as I have a full schedule. I could distance myself far from this 14 yr old girl and cut off all contact, but then it is she who suffers the most. I offer what help I can and try to offer alternatives to the road into being a GRO.....I ask you to think to yourself, just how many GROs are there in the Philippines? OK, how many older / retired? Their children and grandchildren might not meet too much resistance from them if they were to establish a relationship with one of us damn foreigners..... Might not be a real stretch to say that it is often encouraged. And I do not mean to 'set up' the foreigner, but to actually bring him into the famliy. I believe there is a Pinoy term for this. I am not sure if I am pronouncing it correctly, but I shall try. In any case it is spelled this way.MY DAUGHTER HIT THE LOTTERY! So, I am not blaming the dead guy for having a relationship whatever it was, with a 16 yr old girl. Now I ask you... IF the age of consent was 15 in the Philippinjes (it is 18) would the report in the media of a 76 yr old man in a relationship with a 16 yr old girl be much of a conversation point?Bruce

Given the fact the PNP investigators are sharp as a bowling ball, I believe the latest news article is not complete and seems to be full of holes. It's the same thing with the US Naval officer that "fell" to his death at Manila International. Somewhere in our brain, we are all wired to be prejudice as we grow older. For example, seeing a 16 year old Filipina with a foreigner still in his 20-30's may seem normal like "oh, what a cute couple". However, seeing a foreigner who is obviously asenior citizen may elicit some derogatory comments. And then the tsimis spreads around the village/barrio/sub division likewild fire. Is the difference in age more shocking to the public eye? Does this pre-judgement also apply to western society?It is good Bruce that you have a presence of mind to watch your back, keeping your distance as you continue to support the young kids with tuition. By the way -- "Manalo sya ng jackpot" could be used to describe a foreigner marrying into the family.Bless you heart -- Jake

[gapotwo]

The media says he was in a relationship,what is a relationship?A relationship could be one of just helping someone through life without being in love or having sex. Come on,how many 76 year olds are out there having sex?If the Philippines media or any media for that matter told you the sky is falling would you run to the window to look?

no i wouldnt look out the window, because to the best of my knowledge ,the sky never fell, but this kind of incident is not the first time it has happened in the PH. regarding a older man and a minor. i never been to cebu but i have heard scuttelbutt that it is common thing over there. like it used to be outside the us bases before. tanks ej.

[Dave Hounddriver]

but this kind of incident is not the first time it has happened in the PH. regarding a older man and a minor. i never been to cebu but i have heard scuttelbutt that it is common thing over there. like it used to be outside the us bases before. tanks ej.

Not the way you described outside the us bases. Nope. Not that bad at all. BUT you are right that it happens a lot in Cebu with 17 year olds and older men. Why? Because the 17 year olds will practically THROW themselves at an eligible foreigner AND their parents AND their aunts, uncles, grandparents and all other relatives will practically push the girl in his direction. There are a lot of guys here with 17 year olds and I know some of them are living like they are married. Is it wrong? Do a study on how many guys from the US will say no when that situation is thrust on them and let us know. Is it illegal? Show me the law that says it is illegal and I will show you one that says the legal age in the Philippines is 16.

[Art2ro]

Well, I've seen in a National Geographic documentary on TV long ago, if one lived in Africa and owns a herd of cows, one is considered well to do and even the Village Chief or Elder will marry off one of his 13 yr old daughters to the prospective suitor no matter what age he may be! Talk about robbing the cradle! So, it's a cultural thing and it happens in other countries!I know this is slightly off the topic, but just showing the age gap difference in other countries, which is normal for some cultures!

[Mr Lee]

but this kind of incident is not the first time it has happened in the PH. regarding a older man and a minor. i never been to cebu but i have heard scuttelbutt that it is common thing over there. like it used to be outside the us bases before. tanks ej.

Not the way you described outside the us bases. Nope. Not that bad at all. BUT you are right that it happens a lot in Cebu with 17 year olds and older men. Why? Because the 17 year olds will practically THROW themselves at an eligible foreigner AND their parents AND their aunts, uncles, grandparents and all other relatives will practically push the girl in his direction. There are a lot of guys here with 17 year olds and I know some of them are living like they are married. Is it wrong? Do a study on how many guys from the US will say no when that situation is thrust on them and let us know. Is it illegal? Show me the law that says it is illegal and I will show you one that says the legal age in the Philippines is 16.

I believe there are a lot of laws we can quote from but most people seem to forget that there are different laws for foreigners than locals. Please show us the one where a foreigner can live with a minor legally in the Philippines?Age of consent 18Then there is the Child Protection act which makes it illegal to just be in the presence of a minor.

ARTICLE VIOther Acts of Abuse

(b) Any person who shall keep or have in his company a minor, twelve (12) years or under or who in ten (10) years or more his junior in any public or private place, hotel, motel, beer joint, discotheque, cabaret, pension house, sauna or massage parlor, beach and/or other tourist resort or similar places shall suffer the penalty of prision mayor in its maximum period and a fine of not less than Fifty thousand pesos (P50,000): Provided, That this provision shall not apply to any person who is related within the fourth degree of consanguinity or affinity or any bond recognized by law, local custom and tradition or acts in the performance of a social, moral or legal duty.Definition of Terms. –

(a) "Children" refers to person below eighteen (18) years of age or those over but are unable to fully take care of themselves or protect themselves from abuse, neglect, cruelty, exploitation or discrimination because of a physical or mental disability or condition;

[gapotwo]

but this kind of incident is not the first time it has happened in the PH. regarding a older man and a minor. i never been to cebu but i have heard scuttelbutt that it is common thing over there. like it used to be outside the us bases before. tanks ej.

Not the way you described outside the us bases. Nope. Not that bad at all. BUT you are right that it happens a lot in Cebu with 17 year olds and older men. Why? Because the 17 year olds will practically THROW themselves at an eligible foreigner AND their parents AND their aunts, uncles, grandparents and all other relatives will practically push the girl in his direction. There are a lot of guys here with 17 year olds and I know some of them are living like they are married. Is it wrong? Do a study on how many guys from the US will say no when that situation is thrust on them and let us know. Is it illegal? Show me the law that says it is illegal and I will show you one that says the legal age in the Philippines is 16.

if their parents push or sell them to the foreinger, then thats between them and i pitty the child, and if the foreiner accecpts a child bride then to me he has no morals whatsoever. because both partys are guilty in my book, and that is my oppinion on that . illegal??? never said it was, wrong?? yes in my book, regardless of set legal age. regardless of color or origin , this is the kind of thing that makes me glad to come back home to deal with. they dont want your good looks, just your money, and when that runs out? nuff sed!! tanks ej. Edited April 4, 2011 by gapotwo