American Killed In Sanciangko/ Cebu City

[MikeB]

The law does not specify alone, it says in his company, so if he was alone with her in his room, or had other underage persons with her in his room, then he broke the law and possibly broke it many times over if more underage persons were with him in his room. We can argue this for months, but I am pretty sure that he would still be alive if he had lead a normal life here and avoided teenagers, unless they were in the company of their older relatives, after all, had he not known her, be it in the biblical sense or otherwise, then her friends never would not have known him either, and therefore would most likely not have killed him. Play with fire and get burned.

And if he had never been born he never would have died been murdered. You seem intent on blaming the victim when we don't know what, if anything, happened between these two. If it wasn't him it may well have been someone else they murdered. They certainly had the hardware. Be grateful these vicious, stupid murderers are locked up, hopefully for good.

[Mr Lee]

The law does not specify alone, it says in his company, so if he was alone with her in his room, or had other underage persons with her in his room, then he broke the law and possibly broke it many times over if more underage persons were with him in his room. We can argue this for months, but I am pretty sure that he would still be alive if he had lead a normal life here and avoided teenagers, unless they were in the company of their older relatives, after all, had he not known her, be it in the biblical sense or otherwise, then her friends never would not have known him either, and therefore would most likely not have killed him. Play with fire and get burned.

And if he had never been born he never would have died been murdered. You seem intent on blaming the victim when we don't know what, if anything, happened between these two. If it wasn't him it may well have been someone else they murdered. They certainly had the hardware. Be grateful these vicious, stupid murderers are locked up, hopefully for good.

They are teenagers, so they will probably be out of jail in a short period of time, so they can do their dirty deeds all over again. The point that I am making and that I feel is important is, people who visit foreign countries need to stay out of harms way, and if you or anyone else does not wish to follow the law here, or the basics of survival, then it would be my opinion that it would be better to not come here for those people. Too many of us seem to think that the laws should be as we expect them to be, when in fact they are not, and many of the kids and locals know that, so they often take advantage of the laws. My guess is that when a good lawyer tells the judge that the guy in question had been abusing that girl, true or false, the teens will end up free as a bird and sadly maybe even get a medal or an attaboy. The Philippines looks down on people who violate their laws and often finds them guilty, even when they may not have been. It appears that he broke the law being with an underage person, and it really does not matter here if he did the dirty deed or not with her, because just being with underage persons is against the law and we all need to know better. Mike I do not wish to argue with you, but while I believe you have visited a few times, I believe you have not lived here for any length of time, and then once you do, I believe you will see that life here is not fair, and definitely not like life in the US where we actually have rights. If we walk down dark streets at night, be it in parts of the US or the Philippines, we take a chance of being mugged or killed, and even more so here in the Philippines because we stand out, so if we go with underage kids, we take the same chances of something bad happening to us, because we did not follow the law, or rules of survival. So do I blame him for getting murdered, maybe blame is a strong word, but yes, because it most likely would not have happened had he followed the rules of survival here. Would I blame a foreigner who walked around with big gold items and flashed a lot of cash if he ended up dead, yes, basically the same rule applies. Now for a quick story, like inspector, who by the way might have ended himself up in a jam had someone called the police. My wife and I go to visit family in the provinces often and one time I was in bed in a room with a door and a bunch of kids (relatives) came in and closed the door, I reached up and opened the door, later on a bunch of them climbed into bed with me and again the door was closed so we could all sleep, I opened the door and told everyone to make sure it stayed open in case we all fell asleep. Those kids are family, yet I did not wish to be alone with them in a closed room for survivals sake. Am I paranoid, yes and no, maybe more street smart because while none in the family thought anything of it, I did not wish to take a chance or have anyone even be able to say I was alone with those kids. If that guy had used his correct head, then I suspect he too might still be alive today.

[Dave Hounddriver]

I do believe that some posters, (yes Kuya Lee is the one I am thinking of), have their points of view ingrained from Western moral philosophies of the time. What that means is, a few decades ago you may likely have been blaming the girl for dressing seductively and being with a man in his hotel room, thus causing him to rape her. That was the prevailing method of blaming the victim some years back. Of course you could go way back and blame her for being a witch or even further and accuse him of not passing the inquisition.I doubt I am making my point well but it has never been a good idea to blame the victim. In the Philippines, I have found that people don't speak ill of the dead. All is forgiven when you die it seems.

[Mr Lee]

I do believe that some posters, (yes Kuya Lee is the one I am thinking of), have their points of view ingrained from Western moral philosophies of the time. What that means is, a few decades ago you may likely have been blaming the girl for dressing seductively and being with a man in his hotel room, thus causing him to rape her. That was the prevailing method of blaming the victim some years back. Of course you could go way back and blame her for being a witch or even further and accuse him of not passing the inquisition.I doubt I am making my point well but it has never been a good idea to blame the victim. In the Philippines, I have found that people don't speak ill of the dead. All is forgiven when you die it seems.

Maybe we are talking blame, and more likely we are talking about taking responsibility for our own actions, I like to think it is more the latter. There are many things foreigner should not do here to keep themselves out of trouble, and not being with underage persons is one of them. Had he been arrested and jailed for many years, would be having the same argument? Jail here can be just like a death sentence and especially if it is for being accused of having sex with a minor, but then again the same can be held true in the US.

[Dave Hounddriver]

Maybe we are talking blame, and more likely we are talking about taking responsibility for our own actions,

Whether I disagree with you or not about the responsibility of the victim, your message seems to condone the actions of the group of thugs who killed this poor bastard. THAT I do not agree with.

[Mr Lee]

Maybe we are talking blame, and more likely we are talking about taking responsibility for our own actions,

Whether I disagree with you or not about the responsibility of the victim, your message seems to condone the actions of the group of thugs who killed this poor bastard. THAT I do not agree with.

I do not condone murder of anyone, although I have no use for scumbags and if the person killed was one, then I would have no pity for him. So while I do not condone crime on any level, I just feel we are responsible for our own actions and what those actions bring to our plates. Life here is often cheap, so when in a country where life can often be cheap, it is imperative that those of us who live here full time, part time, or even just visit here, fully understand the game and how it is played, or we too may fall victim. Most of us condone such punishment, but it depends on who the person who ends up punished is. For instance, if someone god forbid were to hurt, kill or raped one of our family members, and the police or an armed bystander killed them for doing it, and then left the scene, would there still be indignation? Well it is a distinct possibility that said fellow may have done something to the young girl or to others, but no matter what he did or did not do, he put himself in harms way and that is my main point. Also BTW, that area is known for high crime since it is down off Colon, so while many of us, including my wife and I go down there from time to time and others we know live there by choice, we also are aware of the high crime rate down there and therefore try to not live there or stay down there at night. Choices, we all have them.

[brock]

Its easy to label someone a sexpat just because the phil star wanted to make a killing on selling papers.Just last week I seen a well known Cebu expat who is also a member of this forum and others; hand in hand with a small child going into the toilets at Ayala.Now if I did not know who he was I could easily brand him a sexpat,maybe called the police as I seen this Kano leading a child into a toilet.Facts or lack of I should say,assumptions and branding are half the trouble that give the Kano a bad name.Its so bad now anyone wanting to do a good deed is afraid to because of others branding them without real facts.

When in Rome, follow the laws of Rome, when in the Philippines, follow the laws of the Philippines. So unless someone can actually show me a law that applies to foreigner, and that says they can be with underage persons who are not their family by the definition of the law, then illegal is illegal, so they brand themselves when they break the law. RA no 7610 AN ACT PROVIDING FOR STRONGER DETERRENCE AND SPECIAL PROTECTION AGAINST CHILD ABUSE, EXPLOITATION AND DISCRIMINATION, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES(b) Any person who shall keep or have in his company a minor, twelve (12) years or under or who in ten (10) years or more his junior in any public or private place, hotel, motel, beer joint, discotheque, cabaret, pension house, sauna or massage parlor, beach and/or other tourist resort or similar places shall suffer the penalty of prison mayor in its maximum period and a fine of not less than Fifty thousand pesos (P50,000): Provided, That this provision shall not apply to any person who is related within the fourth degree of consanguinity or affinity or any bond recognized by law, local custom and tradition or acts in the performance of a social, moral or legal duty.

This is what I cannot understand.......Here it is again.......(b) ANY PERSON WHO SHALL KEEP OR HAVE IN HIS COMPANY A MINOR, TWELVE (12) YEARS OR UNDER.......It states a minor is 12 years of age, not 18 years :unsure: ....I must be thick :yes:

[Mr Lee]

Its easy to label someone a sexpat just because the phil star wanted to make a killing on selling papers.Just last week I seen a well known Cebu expat who is also a member of this forum and others; hand in hand with a small child going into the toilets at Ayala.Now if I did not know who he was I could easily brand him a sexpat,maybe called the police as I seen this Kano leading a child into a toilet.Facts or lack of I should say,assumptions and branding are half the trouble that give the Kano a bad name.Its so bad now anyone wanting to do a good deed is afraid to because of others branding them without real facts.

When in Rome, follow the laws of Rome, when in the Philippines, follow the laws of the Philippines. So unless someone can actually show me a law that applies to foreigner, and that says they can be with underage persons who are not their family by the definition of the law, then illegal is illegal, so they brand themselves when they break the law. RA no 7610 AN ACT PROVIDING FOR STRONGER DETERRENCE AND SPECIAL PROTECTION AGAINST CHILD ABUSE, EXPLOITATION AND DISCRIMINATION, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES(b) Any person who shall keep or have in his company a minor, twelve (12) years or under or who in ten (10) years or more his junior in any public or private place, hotel, motel, beer joint, discotheque, cabaret, pension house, sauna or massage parlor, beach and/or other tourist resort or similar places shall suffer the penalty of prison mayor in its maximum period and a fine of not less than Fifty thousand pesos (P50,000): Provided, That this provision shall not apply to any person who is related within the fourth degree of consanguinity or affinity or any bond recognized by law, local custom and tradition or acts in the performance of a social, moral or legal duty.

This is what I cannot understand.......Here it is again.......(b) ANY PERSON WHO SHALL KEEP OR HAVE IN HIS COMPANY A MINOR, TWELVE (12) YEARS OR UNDER.......It states a minor is 12 years of age, not 18 years :unsure: ....I must be thick :yes:

You need to read the rest of the line,

or who in ten (10) years or more his junior

and that combined with the rest of the law seems fairly clear to me that they mean anyone under 18.

REPUBLIC ACT NO. 7610June 17, 1992

AN ACT PROVIDING FOR STRONGER DETERRENCE AND SPECIAL PROTECTION AGAINST CHILD ABUSE, EXPLOITATION AND DISCRIMINATION, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES

<b>Section 1. Title. – This Act shall be known as the "Special Protection of Children Against Abuse, Exploitation and Discrimination Act."Sec. 2. Declaration of State Policy and Principles. – It is hereby declared to be the policy of the State to provide special protection to children from all firms of abuse, neglect, cruelty exploitation and discrimination and other conditions, prejudicial their development; provide sanctions for their commission and carry out a program for prevention and deterrence of and crisis intervention in situations of child abuse, exploitation and discrimination. The State shall intervene on behalf of the child when the parent, guardian, teacher or person having care or custody of the child fails or is unable to protect the child against abuse, exploitation and discrimination or when such acts against the child are committed by the said parent, guardian, teacher or person having care and custody of the same.Section 3. Definition of Terms. –

(a) "Children" refers to person below eighteen (18) years of age or those over but are unable to fully take care of themselves or protect themselves from abuse, neglect, cruelty, exploitation or discrimination because of a physical or mental disability or condition;

and the rest of it as well.

[Art2ro]

Here's just my two centavos worth! Why has this topic been such a big issue and so technical now with everyone quoating Philippine laws? If anyone had any common sense about themselves, one would already know what is right or wrong about this situation concerning relationships between the opposite sex relative to the age difference! It shouldn't have been such a big deal when this topic came about or is it that the majority of people on forums over 60 and are trying to justify themselves being with younger girlfriends or wives that are 20, 30 to 40yrs their junior and feeling somewhat self-conscience about it? I really don't know, but it could be another interesting topic though! My wife is only 15 yrs my junior, I'm 62 now and she's 47, that doesn't seem to be too big of an age difference huh! But 76 and 17, a 59 yr age difference! Holly Sheep Batman, now that's a big age difference! It surely doesn't read well in print or look good through anyone's eyes who has common sense about themselves! At that age, that fella should of known better! I guess the temptation of a forbidden fruit was too overwhelming to resist! As simple as I can put it, that 76 yr old murdered expat was just another example when one messes around with underage girls no matter in what country they are in, it's news! The only simple way I can put it is, don't mess around with underage girls!

[No name]

(b) Any person who shall keep or have in his company a minor, twelve (12) years or under or who in ten (10) years or more his junior in any public or private place, hotel, motel, beer joint, discotheque, cabaret, pension house, sauna or massage parlor, beach and/or other tourist resort or similar places shall suffer the penalty of prison mayor in its maximum period and a fine of not less than Fifty thousand pesos (P50,000): Provided, That this provision shall not apply to any person who is related within the fourth degree of consanguinity or affinity or any bond recognized by law, local custom and tradition or acts in the performance of a social, moral or legal duty.This is what I cannot understand.......Here it is again.......(b) ANY PERSON WHO SHALL KEEP OR HAVE IN HIS COMPANY A MINOR, TWELVE (12) YEARS OR UNDER.......It states a minor is 12 years of age, not 18 years :unsure: ....I must be thick :yes:

I think it means any minor. If they are 12 years of age or younger it doesn't matter how old you are. If they are a minor at 17 and you're 25 you're okay with being with them. But if you're 28 you've got trouble. Since I'm 52, it just reads minor for me. :th_unfair: That comma after the word minor and the word "or" are critical.Don't go to Jollibee, we are all breaking the law. :) As you will be in the presence of a minor. That's why there has to be common sense in the Philippine judicial system. If the PNP really wanted to shake us down, they could just go raid Jollibee's and apply this law in the strict way it i s written! Maybe I shouldn't give anyone any ideas!When it was prosecuted in Cebu, the prosecutor kept using the words "in custody of" so he is kind of changing the law or applying common sense. Personally, I'd rather not rely on someone's common sense. The prosecutor also used the words "especially foreigners" which is also troublesome. I've seen the same words used when resorts on Bantayan Island were being partially demolished.