Brit, Girlfriend Charged With Girl’S Murder

[Mr Lee]

It is not for the NBI or any law enforcement agency to prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, that is totally the jurisdiction of the court. I may not have lived in the Philippines and be an expert on these matters like some claim to be but I know that. And that there is a "presumption of innocence until proven guilty" even if they are bargirls.

I am far from an expert of Philippines law, or anything for that matter, it is just that I know how investigations work, whether they are here or elsewhere. The police and prosecutors have to prove a person guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, it is the courts who decide if they have in fact done that. Added, Beyond a reasonable doubtThe standard that must be met by the prosecution's evidence in a criminal prosecution: that no other logical explanation can be derived from the facts except that the defendant committed the crime, thereby overcoming the presumption that a person is innocent until proven guilty. Edited April 9, 2011 by Kuya Lee
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[Mr Lee]

Let me add to the above post, so where does one think the prosecution gets said evidence to find a person guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, it is what the police, or in this case the NBI and the police gather, and if there is not enough evidence, then a prosecutor is supposed to decide not to press on with the charges, and if the prosecutor presses on anyway, then the judge is supposed to decide that it is a frivolous case and dismiss it when the defense brings a motion to dismiss.

[Mr Lee]

Here are some things not reported in the news before, which seems to allude to the fact that they were in fact into at the very least viewing child porn, or possibly making it. :unsure: Often the news is not allowed to tell it all, or are not given all the facts, but if these people were in fact in possession of a quantity of CD covers with pornographic photos of children, then it would be reasonable at that point to at least believe that they could have been making child porn, and therefore could possibly have kidnapped the girl who was killed. I hope the court allows the evidence to stand, and that the hair strands would be tested for DNA to confirm beyond a reasonable doubt that the kidnap-slay victim Ellah Joy Pique was in that home, if in fact the people charged are guilty. It is a travesty of justice when a person who is definitely guilty of a charge, is let go because of technicalities, so IF the people charged are guilty of this heinous crime, then they should be made to pay, and if they are innocent then they should be cleared, and if they are guilty of other charges, then they should charge them and clear their name on these charges, but not let them off on a technicality. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for anyone who even possesses child porn.

Pique claimed the LAN cord and stones seized by CIDG in the house of Santos are similar to that found in the body of Ellah Joy when it was found in Barili town.“The stones are believed to be intended as sinkers to hide her body, which fortunately did not reach the waters down the cliff,” the motion reads. Meanwhile, he added that the pornographic CD covers and assorted CDs and waiver were seized on plain view, “and in fact contraband under Anti-Child Pornography La (RA 9775).”This, he further stated, makes a person in “possession of photographs of nude children liable, and the waiver being an agreement to such child pornography, easily discernable at the time of the search.”

Ellah Joy's pa asks court: Retain hair strands, cord, stones and CDs

[Jollygoodfellow]

Here are some things not reported in the news before, which seems to allude to the fact that they were in fact into at the very least viewing child porn, or possibly making it. :unsure: Often the news is not allowed to tell it all, or are not given all the facts, but if these people were in fact in possession of a quantity of CD covers with pornographic photos of children, then it would be reasonable at that point to at least believe that they could have been making child porn, and therefore could possibly have kidnapped the girl who was killed. I hope the court allows the evidence to stand, and that the hair strands would be tested for DNA to confirm beyond a reasonable doubt that the kidnap-slay victim Ellah Joy Pique was in that home, if in fact the people charged are guilty. It is a travesty of justice when a person who is definitely guilty of a charge, is let go because of technicalities, so IF the people charged are guilty of this heinous crime, then they should be made to pay, and if they are innocent then they should be cleared, and if they are guilty of other charges, then they should charge them and clear their name on these charges, but not let them off on a technicality. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for anyone who even possesses child porn.

Pique claimed the LAN cord and stones seized by CIDG in the house of Santos are similar to that found in the body of Ellah Joy when it was found in Barili town.“The stones are believed to be intended as sinkers to hide her body, which fortunately did not reach the waters down the cliff,” the motion reads. Meanwhile, he added that the pornographic CD covers and assorted CDs and waiver were seized on plain view, “and in fact contraband under Anti-Child Pornography La (RA 9775).”This, he further stated, makes a person in “possession of photographs of nude children liable, and the waiver being an agreement to such child pornography, easily discernable at the time of the search.”

Ellah Joy's pa asks court: Retain hair strands, cord, stones and CDs

I'm no expert on dumb criminals minds but I doubt very much that any child porn CD's would include a cover unless these crims are super dumb.

[Dave Hounddriver]

I'm no expert on dumb criminals minds but I doubt very much that any child porn CD's would include a cover unless these crims are super dumb.

The CDs they sell door to door here have covers that look very sinister. In fact they are stupid, low class porn that locals watch. filipinas can be the worse culprits, come on girls . . . . . those of you who watch it know who you are. But the porn inside is hardly ever like what they depict on the cover, which is probably why they focus on the 'cover' in their investigation rather than the contents and is probably why the filipina had a few in her house or apartment.

[Mr Lee]

For those of you who seem to think that you can take the bar out of the bargirl, please read THIS NEWS STORY of the court ordering the return of the vehicle due to the wrong license plate number in the warrant, and read how insensitive and cocky Santos is and then tell us she is no longer a bar girl at heart. What type of person would act like that, surely not someone who has a heart. The more I read and see of her actions on TV, the more I feel she is guilty and has no feeling, so could easily kill. Of course news stories may or may not be true, but what would the writer have to gain by adding in something like this, if it were not true.

During the hearing, Santos stuck out her tongue at Renante. “Gaba! Namatay imo’ng anak (You’ve had your comeuppance. Your daughter is now dead),” she said, laughing.

[Jollygoodfellow]

For those of you who seem to think that you can take the bar out of the bargirl, please read THIS NEWS STORY of the court ordering the return of the vehicle due to the wrong license plate number in the warrant, and read how insensitive and cocky Santos is and then tell us she is no longer a bar girl at heart. What type of person would act like that, surely not someone who has a heart.

During the hearing, Santos stuck out her tongue at Renante. “Gaba! Namatay imo’ng anak (You’ve had your comeuppance. Your daughter is now dead),” she said, laughing.

How do you come up with that logic?I think that is really a weird statement to say she acts like that because she is or was a bargirl,there are idiots in court everyday all over the world that say or have done bad things and I'm sure they are not all ex bargirls.The same for being heartless,you dont have to be a bargirl to be heartless and whats to say bargirls are heartless?

[Mr Lee]

For those of you who seem to think that you can take the bar out of the bargirl, please read THIS NEWS STORY of the court ordering the return of the vehicle due to the wrong license plate number in the warrant, and read how insensitive and cocky Santos is and then tell us she is no longer a bar girl at heart. What type of person would act like that, surely not someone who has a heart.

During the hearing, Santos stuck out her tongue at Renante. “Gaba! Namatay imo’ng anak (You’ve had your comeuppance. Your daughter is now dead),” she said, laughing.

How do you come up with that logic?I think that is really a weird statement to say she acts like that because she is or was a bargirl,there are idiots in court everyday all over the world that say or have done bad things and I'm sure they are not all ex bargirls.The same for being heartless,you dont have to be a bargirl to be heartless and whats to say bargirls are heartless?

You and others who have not worked in the industry, or had to deal with them within the industry, be it here or somewhere else, or just have had to deal with them in other ways, both of which I have experience, would first have to, in order to fully understand where I am coming from. A woman, any woman, who has to have sex with many different men, who she has no attachment to, in order to earn a living, becomes very hardened and detached to do so, and it takes a heartless bitch to insult someone who has lost their child, and then on top of that even laughs at them. No she did not have to be a bargirl to become like that, and sometimes others are just plain born that way, or learn it from their family, but Santos being a former bargirl, and acting the way I see her act on TV, has become a hardened, heartless person, who came from nowhere (being poor) and now thumbs her nose at others because she has arrived (she thinks) at thinking she is someone now, because she now has money and a foreign bf. To me she is pure garbage, acts like trash, dresses like trash, an no not just sexy, trash, there is a difference, and she speaks bad of others like trash, so while she may have learned those habits before becoming a bargirl, my best guess from personal interaction (no not sex) with hookers, bargirls and strippers, is that she became that way from having to live the life of a bargirl. People who deal with many of these ladies, and see how nice they act towards them, have not lived with some of them, or spent enough time with some of them, to know who they really are. Maybe some of you who think otherwise, might like to ask the guys who run those bars, to see what they think of said ladies. My guess is they will tell you exactly what I am telling you, I know because I have spoken to a few, even here in the good old Philippines. As I have always said, there are no doubt exceptions to the rule, that I feel is a rule, but just put yourself into any job, and look at how a new person to that job act when they first come aboard that job, and see how we have changed from being in that job for a period of time, and then you know where I am coming from. Look at newbies to the Philippines and how we acted when we were newbies, verses how we, or they act once we then feel comfortable in ours or their new environment, and again then you will understand where I am coming from.Bargirls have to do unspeakable things, that it takes them to become hardened and detached to do, because most of those things are not things they would have ever even dreamed of doing in their normal previous life, had they not become a bargirl, so I am sorry if what I write offends you, or someone else because you or they think you know someone who is different, but any person who becomes good at what they do, changes, and therefore that is where I am coming from, and besides that, they learn to tell us what they know we want to hear, a learned trait in order to earn the most money and survive, so most often unless they let their hair down with us, they are not who they pretend to be when with us. NO I do not speak from experience with Philippine bargirls, other than talking to quite a few over the years where they had nothing but a free drink to gain from me, so some let their hair down when asked the correct questions, but one prostitute is the same as the next IMHO, even when they have different genes. So all, think what you wish to think about them, but until you have walked in my shoes, or have actually run one of those places, IMHO you probably do not know of what you speak, when you think your bargirl is different. Or maybe it is me who is full of it, your choice to think what you want, but maybe if and when some of you get into real relationships with a real bargirl, then maybe report back here and tell us after a year or so that I was wrong. I would love to hear it, and see that I am wrong, even a few times.

[Dave Hounddriver]

So you're saying her outburst had nothing to do with the father calling her a slut, murderer and every other bad name in the book and saying he wanted to see her jailed for the rest of her life? Would that not make any emotional person say the things that girl said once things started to go her way?

[Dave Hounddriver]

So you're saying her outburst had nothing to do with the father calling her a slut, murderer and every other bad name in the book and saying he wanted to see her jailed for the rest of her life? Would that not make any emotional person say the things that girl said once things started to go her way?

EditIt just occurred to me that whether her outburst was angry or emotional is a key issue. Bar girls of my acquaintance have more anger deep inside than emotion, although they are extremely good at faking the emotion part.