Legal Questions

[Garpo]

"I have a minor issue and I am simply asking for details on ways to handle it. Running and hiding or keeping a low profile just ain't me!"Bruce,

While I admire your convictions, I must say that I agree with Lee. Sometimes a very low profile is the best way to get things done, that is almost always the case here in the Philippines. While you might be brave and hard headed in your pursuit of of taking a piece of ass out of a questionable attorney. Doing so in the wrong way here in the Philippines could put you in a box and six feet under. That is your choice and you certainly have the right to put yourself in that position. You however do not have the right to put your "Lady" or any of her family or friends that you may need assistance from in a position of danger. It is no question that you will have to have your Lady be the front person on any type of case or complaint and by doing so, you could very well be putting her in a difficult and dangerous positon. Just in my honest opinion which you asked for by posting your question. Edited June 12, 2011 by Kuya Lee
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[Bruce]

"I have a minor issue and I am simply asking for details on ways to handle it. Running and hiding or keeping a low profile just ain't me!"Bruce,

While I admire your convictions, I must say that I agree with Lee. Sometimes a very low profile is the best way to get things done, that is almost always the case here in the Philippines. While you might be brave and hard headed in your pursuit of of taking a piece of ass out of a questionable attorney. Doing so in the wrong way here in the Philippines could put you in a box and six feet under. That is your choice and you certainly have the right to put yourself in that position. You however do not have the right to put your "Lady" or any of her family or friends that you may need assistance from in a position of danger. It is no question that you will have to have your Lady be the front person on any type of case or complaint and by doing so, you could very well be putting her in a difficult and dangerous positon. Just in my honest opinion which you asked for by posting your question.

Actually, I suppose I will be creamated... provinding there is a body of course. What I am really looking for is some advice to harass / screw someone here... legally! If we were in the US (yes, I know Phils is not the US) I would have filed both a bar complaint (I have beed succcessful 2 times before) as a cross complaint, naming that attorney as a witness and that will prevent him from continuing as the attorney for his client. .... I am not worried (yet) about anyone's safety. Her family is very well known. There is no shortage of friends willing to help. No hints of any violence. If there was, maybe I would rethink my position. Until then I was hoping there was an attorney (Pinoy) on the forum that can offer some tips that will cause issues between client and attorney....

[sjp52]

I think the person you should be going after and making an example of is the women who is lieing through her teeth to scare you into a pay off. People will keep doing this type of thing as long as there is no consequences. What have they got to lose. Lawyers cant help it< they have a reputation to keep lol just kidding

[Dave Hounddriver]

. . . .What I am really looking for is some advice to harass / screw someone here... legally!

Seems to me that the advice you are getting is: Don't do that here. Just look at the top levels of society. Marcos, major crook, gets full honors. Estrada, major crook, darn near gets reelected. People here seem to admire a good crook so you are not going to get far with your attitude unless you can screw him over and have it look like you are the good guy. Are you filipino enough to accomplish that?

[Jake]

I think the person you should be going after and making an example of is the women who is lieing through her teeth to scare you into a pay off. People will keep doing this type of thing as long as there is no consequences. What have they got to lose. Lawyers cant help it< they have a reputation to keep lol just kidding

Excellent point SJP52! In spite of the overwhelming evidence against them, the adult daughter and her mother continues to pursue their case. The fact that the father (actual owner) is not party to this case. Greed has noboundaries and their lawyer also wants a piece of the action. It is always helpful to have aces up your sleeve (your lady friend's powerful connections) but one must alsoconsider if the other side has connections to counter your claim. The situation can quickly elevate becauseno one wants to "lose face", even though the facts were presented to the local officials. For a small fee, casesof beer or couple grams of Shabu, anyone can be hired to settle a land dispute. Again, watch your back Bruce -- Jake Edited June 12, 2011 by Jake
Korrect my Englesh agin

[Garpo]

Bruce,You have the property, the proof, and a case is already pending. If it were me, I would not risk what I already had just to piss off a local attorney who actually has not done anything except piss you off. Give the courts the chance to reslove this thing for you as the case is already there. From what I have seen of the court system here and my experience (yes I hired a Philippine attorney), the case will never be resolved in your lifetime. The system is so slow here it is very common for even young poeple to die of old age before there cases are resolved in a court. Let the daughter and her family waste their money on a lawyer that is going to end up looking like a fool in front of his peers in the courts. When and after that is done, then will be the time for additional payback if that is still what you want to do. I would be willing to bet that their interest will stop and go away as soon as they see you are not going to rollover and give them any money as a payoff. Sad as it might be, that is what they are expecting and in most cases the way things are done here. My guess is that their resources to pursue this matter will run out, end, and hurt them much more than it will you.There is always more than one way to skin a cat, or in your case a snake. Be smart, bide your time and take action at the right time.

[FlyAway]

The saying "Frivolous Lawsuit" is what I am thinking. How often do you hear of silly suits being filed in the US? Recently there was a lawsuit brought by homeless people living in a city park. They were given ample notice to move or be moved. After some time, the city came in with cleanup crews. Well, several people sued that there belongings were destroyed and they wanted restitution. Guess what? Jury partially agreed with them. Who gets the bulk of the money? Attorneys of course.Some people are always going to be out to make a quick dollar or peso. Why not file suit and see what shakes out of the money tree? They really have nothing to loose anyway. Except face as many have already said. Basic business strategy when it comes to legal issues. Is it cheaper to pay someone off to get rid of the problem or pay the legal fee's to a lawyer?

[Bruce]

Bruce,You have the property, the proof, and a case is already pending. If it were me, I would not risk what I already had just to piss off a local attorney who actually has not done anything except piss you off. Give the courts the chance to reslove this thing for you as the case is already there. From what I have seen of the court system here and my experience (yes I hired a Philippine attorney), the case will never be resolved in your lifetime. The system is so slow here it is very common for even young poeple to die of old age before there cases are resolved in a court. Let the daughter and her family waste their money on a lawyer that is going to end up looking like a fool in front of his peers in the courts. When and after that is done, then will be the time for additional payback if that is still what you want to do. I would be willing to bet that their interest will stop and go away as soon as they see you are not going to rollover and give them any money as a payoff. Sad as it might be, that is what they are expecting and in most cases the way things are done here. My guess is that their resources to pursue this matter will run out, end, and hurt them much more than it will you.There is always more than one way to skin a cat, or in your case a snake. Be smart, bide your time and take action at the right time.

I had acutally offerd them 15000 pesos ($300 then) and gave them time to remove the house and keep all the materials... never responded at that time. The father, who is not suing, did stop by and tell my friend, infront of many witnesses, to wreck the house if she would forget the ground rents due. Which is about 35,000 pesos now. She agreed. She also has a letter from the local eclectic company and water company that the services were shut off in 2007 when they abandoned the house. While it appears that we will have no issues in couret as to a 'win', it has been my experience that the real problem is the attorney. Just in asking simple questions from his clients he would find out all this information. Then for him to support legal action and to collect a fee from his clients seems to be dishonest. There is also anothe 'slick' legal issue in that 'we' now have to counter sue and name the father who is not suing us, (not really me) because no matter what the optcome of this current suit, unless his rights (if any) are not addressed now, he can then sue us at a later date! So we get to do it all again.

[ancienrocka]

I trained as a lawyer after University and my "mentor" at the firm where I worked said to me "welcome those who want to pursue issues as a "matter of principal" because they are the ones that will make us rich". Later he told me he was not serious and coached me in the best advice any lawyer can give a client " treat every matter as a business decision - even if you are 100% right and are legally owed $20,000, is it worth spending $21,000 and a lot of time and aggravation to get it back!" - Negotiate is my advice, use your power of argument but outside a courtroom. And as lee says do it nicely without loss of face for the other party.

[Bruce]

I trained as a lawyer after University and my "mentor" at the firm where I worked said to me "welcome those who want to pursue issues as a "matter of principal" because they are the ones that will make us rich". Later he told me he was not serious and coached me in the best advice any lawyer can give a client " treat every matter as a business decision - even if you are 100% right and are legally owed $20,000, is it worth spending $21,000 and a lot of time and aggravation to get it back!" - Negotiate is my advice, use your power of argument but outside a courtroom. And as lee says do it nicely without loss of face for the other party.

That is EXACTLY the problem! A large % of lawsuits today (in the US) are not really about any true issue, but are designed to get a settlement. Any one settlement may not be much, but for the attorney that sets up these suits to get the settlements, collectively, gets rich. Also, I am not real comfortable with walking on egg shells just to not embarass the 'other guy' (this saving face crap is actually Japanese and not a true culture match with the Pinoys). This concept of fear that seems to run with forum members that if you embarass a Pinoy, you will be killed is simply not true. If it were, THOUSAND of school boys would be dead before they graduated! THOUSANDS of employees that get yelled at by their boss would have killed their bosses. THOUSANDS of husbands would die wach year for the way they treat their wives.There have been a few, yes a few, well positioned people killed for different reasons. But, and I am talking to the true Pinoy members of this forum, you most likely know a few thousand people over the past 20 years. How many really have been killed? If you compare the numbers to the US, myself and other Kano members can also name a 'few' people that we know who were killed. It pretty much equals out. And to you Pinoy members... just how many have YOU killed for cutting you off in traffic or some other preceived insult? DOes any one realise that in a country with divorce almost impossible to get... there have got to be a million or more relationships between husband and wife and break up and then they each frind different mates... all with out killing each other? It is a fact that there WERE head hunters / cannibals on Borneo.... (spl?) the key word is WERE. Past tense. If you did a Pinoy history study of 1800 -1900 on numbers opf fueds resulting in a death and then from 1900-1950.... the turning point..... and then 1950 to present day, you would see far less fueds in the majority of the Philippines and lasting mostly into the areas controlled by the muslims. Further, it is automatically assumed that the 'good guy' will be killed! Every once in a while the 'hunted kills the hunter'! I am really just an observer with no hands on contact here. My woman friend was born and raised on Samar is quite familiar on what to excpect and how do get things done and has a couple of nephews who are police officers (in case you need a traffic ticket taken care of, wink wink) as well as the usual local thug cousins....So, lets see if we can get past warning me of my impending doom and see if there is any one out there who can offer some insight on the Bar Association or any Rules that have to be met prior to filing a 'case'...... Which was the purpose of my original post. While I am asking for information, most have jumped on the RUN! the sky is falling band wagon and if I were to believe you (as any other reader might!) if I were smart I would NEVER EVER travel to the Philippines again! Ps. If I get killed, please disregard this post.... I admit it, I was wrong.......