I Guess I Am Not The Only One Leaning In That Direction

[Mr Lee]

Please reread my posts #1 #4 and #6 again. We are not talking about a foreigner who might not get as fair a trial as he or she might get in their own country, we are talking about a person (Bella) who is a Philippine Citizen, so once again it is her country and running will not help to bring in the true offender, if she and her bf are innocent. As for Lacson, nothing says he was, or is not guilty of the charges they put against him, but political persecution of her enemies seemed to be the norm under the former president, and just because one person decides to skirt the law, does not mean everyone should. So what about Erap who stood trial and did not run, even knowing he would not get a fair trial under the former president, I believe that he did so because he felt he was innocent, yet whether he was or not is all speculation. The criminal justice system is what it is, and it is not fair to anyone who is poor in most countries, so while Santos may have had a chance of being let out on bail, or confined to her home, or given a cushy place in jail to spend her time, she would have at least been able to stay alive, now she may instead end up with a bullet if caught by an over zealous law enforcement officer if she decides to resist arrest, or if they decide they cannot win in court, so if she is in fact innocent, then the real killers will have gotten away with it totally if she is dead or never tried. If Filipinos do not like the system they have, then IMHO they need to get it fixed and not run away from it. As for foreigners not wishing to face the music under the system, I do not blame them, but it seems that once the governor and NBI were brought into it, the last couple was released, so the system did work even if poorly until the intervention, and from all I read, and from their own words during an interview, they were not put into the jail system and were treated fairly well while they were held, and Santos may have been afforded the same treatment, but Santos lost that chance by running and by taunting the prosecution and family of the poor unfortunate young girls who is the true victim in all this. I personally hope they catch her and do not kill her in doing so, so that all evidence or lack there of, will come out in court. I also hope that if she is innocent, then she will be found as such, so that they can then concentrate on catching the real killers, but if guilty, I hope she gets what she deserves.

[Dave Hounddriver]

So what if she is eventually proven guilty. Will that change my thoughts on these events? Not this time. This is one of those cases where I would rather see one guilty person go free than a multitude of people jailed or worse due to inept, corrupt or dysfunctional police and judicial systems.

[Markham]

The criminal justice system is what it is, and it is not fair to anyone who is poor in most countries, so while Santos may have had a chance of being let out on bail, or confined to her home, or given a cushy place in jail to spend her time, she would have at least been able to stay alive, now she may instead end up with a bullet if caught by an over zealous law enforcement officer if she decides to resist arrest, or if they decide they cannot win in court, so if she is in fact innocent, then the real killers will have gotten away with it totally if she is dead or never tried.

The offences with which Bella Santos has been charged are non-bailable. She would have been held at the correctional facility along with others awaiting trial and convicted criminals. The head of the correctional facility unwisely cracked jokes about her being recruited as the star attraction of the facility's dance troupe - all of whom are criminals. He assumed that because Santos is "a former bar-girl" she would be used to dancing; in fact Santos is a former cocktail waitress. Crimes against children is a very emotive subject which can spark violence by otherwise "normal" people. Digressing for a second, once news of Griffith's arrest was published in the UK press, his former wife and other members of his family - including his elderly mother - were all the victims of "hate crime" and in one or two cases, they were threatened. Prisoners are no exception and in our countries, those who are remanded for those offences are segregated from other remand prisoners - for their own protection. No such facility exists in Cebu. If sent to the correctional facility, Santos' life-expectancy could be foreshortened and she would, at the very least, likely to be severely beaten. The Mayor of Naga fortunately has recognised that as being a real possibility and has offered to house Santos in the town's jail and ensure her protection - provided she surrender herself to him personally. That would be fine except for the fact that the Judge may decide to order her moved to the correctional facility. And she could be there many years awaiting trial.

If Filipinos do not like the system they have, then IMHO they need to get it fixed and not run away from it.

How do you propose they do that? As you know, this is a country run by mega-rich families who have absolutely no desire to change the status quo. Your statement presupposes that enough Filipinos - to affect such changes - would have any detailed knowledge of the workings of law enforcement or the justice system practiced in other countries - they barely know their own. They're certainly not taught it in schools or colleges and forget about them getting such knowledge from TV! We have the advantage in that we know how our respective systems operate and can see the difference; but we can't effect change here even if we wanted to.

As for foreigners not wishing to face the music under the system, I do not blame them, but it seems that once the governor and NBI were brought into it, the last couple was released, so the system did work even if poorly until the intervention, and from all I read, and from their own words during an interview, they were not put into the jail system and were treated fairly well while they were held, and Santos may have been afforded the same treatment, but Santos lost that chance by running and by taunting the prosecution and family of the poor unfortunate young girls who is the true victim in all this.

This would be the Governor whom several newspaper editors all-but accused of bribing witnesses and the same Governor who, when faced with increasing press criticism of the Police investigation and increasing diplomatic pressure somewhat belatedly asked the NBI to review the PNP case.

I personally hope they catch her and do not kill her in doing so, so that all evidence or lack there of, will come out in court. I also hope that if she is innocent, then she will be found as such, so that they can then concentrate on catching the real killers, but if guilty, I hope she gets what she deserves.

See my reply (#9) above. Mark Edited August 6, 2011 by Markham

[Jake]

Hello Mark, Your assessment of the big picture is noteworthy. You have presented some really good what if scenarios and their logical outcomes. Unfortunately, the case was doomed from the very start. In respond to appease the international community, especially USA regarding their efforts to curbthe rampant flesh market, the Cebu prosecution and their investigators became victims themselvesagainst the media and Manila politics. It all blew back in their face as the chit hits the fan. Victim Ellah Joy is not unique. Many Filipino families have their own horror stories where fathers,uncles and cousins victimize their own family members. Respectfully -- Jake

[Old55]

Hmmm, guilty by not allowing herself to be arrested? How about this Senator Lacson? He was on the run for a long time.

Senator Lacson, rich, powerful, friends in the right places, perhaps knows things others wish to keep quiet.Bella Santos will stay in hidding if she is lucky find her way out of the country. I think that in time she will be located and killed or quickly found guilty.

[Markham]

Your assessment of the big picture is noteworthy. You have presented some really good what if scenarios and their logical outcomes.

Thanks! :mocking:

Unfortunately, the case was doomed from the very start. In respond to appease the international community, especially USA regarding their efforts to curbthe rampant flesh market, the Cebu prosecution and their investigators became victims themselvesagainst the media and Manila politics. It all blew back in their face as the chit hits the fan.

The problem was that it seems very clear that no-one on Cebu knows how to conduct an investigation. My suspicion was confirmed during a conversation over a few beers with an Australian who just happened to be a senior trainer with the Australian Federal Police and was on secondment to the PNP. He was accompanied by a fairly senior PNP officer and they were involved in providing training throughout the Visayas/Mindanao - except for Cebu where they weren't exactly welcomed. The AFP has been helping the PNP for many years and in fact trained my uncle-in-law (and 25 others) in all aspects of evidence gathering, handling and examination. Davao, unlike Cebu, has a well-trained SOCO unit and crime lab (SOCO is Scenes Of Crime Officers - CSI to our American readers). The Cebu Police dropped the ball on day one. A couple were having lunch at a restaurant in Moalboal on the day after Ellah Joy disappeared. There was a TV in the restaurant and the programming was interrupted by a news flash. Ellah's body had just been discovered and an artist's sketch of the two suspects seen outside her school was shown. The chef thought the couple matched the descriptions given, picked-up the phone and called the Police. The couple got up and hurriedly left the restaurant without finishing their meal, got in their car and fled. According to the press report, the Police arrived some two hours later by which time, it was, of course, too late. It's possible they drove the twenty or so kilometres to Toledo and caught the ferry to Negros. That couple and that car have not been searched for. Why when they apparently acted somewhat suspiciously? That is but one example of the level of incompetence plainly apparent in this investigation.

Victim Ellah Joy is not unique. Many Filipino families have their own horror stories where fathers,uncles and cousins victimize their own family members.

You raise a very valid point. In fact there are two. I suggest that there are many more Filipinos involved in human trafficking than foreigners in this country and Ellah could have been the victim of that. Also, it's pretty well-known that kidnapping is a common means of settling old scores between rival families or as a means of raising money - by demanding a ransom. As far as we know, the Pique family and their associates have not been questioned about this crime.

Bella Santos will stay in hidding if she is lucky find her way out of the country. I think that in time she will be located and killed or quickly found guilty.

Found guilty for what crime? Mark

[Old55]

I don't know who killed that little girl neither do the police. The police need someone to be guilty justice can be served or someone can be protected so it has been decided Santos will do at least it looks that way to me.