Ex-Us Navy Knows Pique's Real Killers?

[Old55]

I must say I am in agreement with you Mark. Although we don't know who killed that poor innocent child there is no case to charge Bella and her husband. Lee, as Mark said I too think she has left the country easy enough to do $$$$$. However if she is in the Philippines her life is highly at risk. It would be much too easy to just kill her then be done with the whole thing. CASE CLOSED!

[Mr Lee]

OK HERE is a post I made back in May that has a phone number of a Hot Line. I have no idea if it works or not, but if someone has info on a serious crime, then it might at least be worth trying. Also as I said above, so far we can buy sim cards by just walking up to a booth and paying for them without them being registered, so anyone can buy a sim card and put it in a throw away phone and report a crime. I know I could never live with myself if I did not do everything I could to make sure an innocent person was cleared, or that a guilty party was prosecuted. As far as her leaving the country or not, that is none of my business and it is up to the law enforcement there to find out.

[Markham]

Remember Lee that the PNP are looking for Bella Ruby Santos but, if you check back you will find that she has another name, her married name. Could it be that she has managed to leave the country using a Passport issued in her married name? That's a possibility, wouldn't you think. For all we know, she could be in London right now. And anyone who gives information about a crime here will almost certainly be required to give that evidence in court otherwise that evidence is not admissable. There is no anonymous "Crime Stoppers" here. Mark

Mark you are wrong, I posted not long ago about an anonymous tip line the Philippines had set up for crimes, then there are the action reporters who will refuse to give their source, and a phone call from a pay phone or a throw away sim made to the governors office or quite a few other officials might be better than keeping the info to oneself and letting it eat themselves up inside. I will try to find my post and post a link to it.

Lee, be realistic! You obviously have far more faith in the PNP than those of us who actually live full-time here. I don't for one second believe that the PNP will give any credence whatsoever to an anonymous tipoff which points to another suspect, even if that person is the real abductor and killer. As far as the Police are concerned, they have "their man" and they're not about to want to look at more evidence or even consider more suspects. Anyone who comes forward with information about a new suspect would have to be interviewed by the Police and Prosecutors and, given the leakiness of both those outfits, his or her name will appear in tomorrows' newspapers. But I want to take you back to your original post:

Some more info in the news HERE. So I wonder if there really is a tipster. :) It sure sounds to me like Comendador has an ace in the hole, or is making believe he does, because of his comment. Comendador to Santos: "I'll ruin your plans"“Kita, we should be careful with what we wish and ask for because we might get it and they should be careful if ila kong gamiton,” the police official said.Comendador said that whatever the defense is planning would amount to nothing if Santos would not appear in court.On reports that a certain former US Navy member knows the ‘real suspects’ of the case, Comendador said the claim is only a diversion.“Coming from a defense counsel, they will do all means to pinpoint the real suspects,” he said.Villagonzalo clarified it was not the retired US navy who called him to give him some lead on the real suspects.“It was the tipster who has contact with the US navy. I did not see him personally nor talked to him,” Villagonzalo said.However, he said they contacted the navy’s wife but the latter was hesitant to cooperate.

That rather suggests that Santos and Griffiths aren't the "real suspects", doesn't it! Mark Edited August 27, 2011 by Markham

[Old55]

Good point Lee.... there are even an occasional pay phone in Philippines. Yep, we don't know if she left the country or any other real facts. Most of what we know is from the local news papers, to be polite at best that is a mixed bag.It would be so nice if the police would actually find the person or persons who murdered that poor little child.

[Markham]

OK HERE is a post I made back in May that has a phone number of a Hot Line. I have no idea if it works or not, but if someone has info on a serious crime, then it might at least be worth trying.

That number - 0906 306 3889 - is, I believe, one means of contacting "Called to Rescue" which is an INGO dedicated to helping child victims of trafficking. It is (probably) not a general crime reporting hotline and I rather doubt that even if one called it to report a suspect in murder case, that they would even be capable of handling it. There is no 911 service in Cebu as there is in Davao, so tell us, what number would YOU call to report a crime anonymously - and have it acted upon? It is very easy to say that you can contact an "action reporter" or the Governor's Office - if you know the right people and their phone numbers. Most people don't. Mark Edited August 27, 2011 by Markham

[Mr Lee]

Remember Lee that the PNP are looking for Bella Ruby Santos but, if you check back you will find that she has another name, her married name. Could it be that she has managed to leave the country using a Passport issued in her married name? That's a possibility, wouldn't you think. For all we know, she could be in London right now. And anyone who gives information about a crime here will almost certainly be required to give that evidence in court otherwise that evidence is not admissable. There is no anonymous "Crime Stoppers" here. Mark

Mark you are wrong, I posted not long ago about an anonymous tip line the Philippines had set up for crimes, then there are the action reporters who will refuse to give their source, and a phone call from a pay phone or a throw away sim made to the governors office or quite a few other officials might be better than keeping the info to oneself and letting it eat themselves up inside. I will try to find my post and post a link to it.

Lee, be realistic! You obviously have far more faith in the PNP than those of us who actually live full-time here. I don't for one second believe that the PNP will give any credence whatsoever to an anonymous tipoff which points to another suspect, even if that person is the real abductor and killer. As far as the Police are concerned, they have "their man" and they're not about to want to look at more evidence or even consider more suspects. Anyone who comes forward with information about a new suspect would have to be interviewed by the Police and Prosecutors and, given the leakiness of both those outfits, his or her name will appear in tomorrows' newspapers. But I want to take you back to your original post:

Some more info in the news HERE. So I wonder if there really is a tipster. :) It sure sounds to me like Comendador has an ace in the hole, or is making believe he does, because of his comment. Comendador to Santos: "I'll ruin your plans"“Kita, we should be careful with what we wish and ask for because we might get it and they should be careful if ila kong gamiton,” the police official said.Comendador said that whatever the defense is planning would amount to nothing if Santos would not appear in court.On reports that a certain former US Navy member knows the ‘real suspects’ of the case, Comendador said the claim is only a diversion.“Coming from a defense counsel, they will do all means to pinpoint the real suspects,” he said.Villagonzalo clarified it was not the retired US navy who called him to give him some lead on the real suspects.“It was the tipster who has contact with the US navy. I did not see him personally nor talked to him,” Villagonzalo said.However, he said they contacted the navy’s wife but the latter was hesitant to cooperate.

That rather suggests that Santos and Griffiths aren't the "real suspects", doesn't it! Mark

No Mark that does not give credence to them being the wrong persons, it says Filipinos have the face issue, so right or wrong, they will defend themselves. No one knows if these two are the correct persons in the crime, only they know. Mark and others, right or wrong, to sit on real evidence is dead wrong, so to take the attitude that nothing would be done if reported is a foolish position to take IMHO, I really do not know if the police would do something or not, but if someone in power knew there was strong evidence that the police were barking up the wrong tree, just as the governor did with the last couple, then they will more than likely act. IMHO anyone who sits on real evidence is a coward and deserves the evils that will tear them up inside the rest of their lives. I would rather die than have to live with knowing that the real killers of that little girl might kill again, that is if the real killers are not already charged. The issue is not whether the real people will end up prosecuted, the issue is more that at least a person tried to right a wrong, if the story that there was such a person is even credible. And yes, my gut still tells me that a person who runs is more than likely guilty and I do not care if the system is terribly broken there, money talks in the Philippines. So if it were God forbid me charged, and I knew I was not guilty, then I would have hired the best PI in the Philippines or maybe an army of them, to try to get to the bottom of the crime, yet there is no evidence that in a country where money talks, that Griffiths or Santos has made any move to try to find the true killers, I wonder why. OH, Mark I am sure you will come up with another of your scenarios, but are they truly innocent in your mind, or are you just fighting the point because you like to argue or because Griffiths is British? I am an equal opportunity offender, in other words, just because someone may be an American, does not make me think they are innocent since criminals come from everywhere, no matter what their background. The truly sad part of all this is that Ellah Joy may never get justice because people take the attitude of not even trying to find out if that couple are guilty or not, or who the real killers are, and instead come up with tons of excuses. Very sad indeed.

[Mr Lee]

After reading some posts and thinking that possibly a lot of peoples attitudes might be to not even try to help to find the real killer, if they do not already have them, then it has come to my mind that many people seem to have a very low opinion of all Filipinos and are putting them all in one box. During my years of going back and forth to the Philippines and living there part time, I have done my best to get to know Filipinos who give a damn about their country, and to avoid those who do not. To say that all police are incompetent, or put them all in one category, just because one or more screw up, is a very sad state of affairs, and more or less what is starting to happen where many Filipinos are starting to put us all into one category, because of the bad ones who happen to hide in their country and eventually get caught. Countries will begin to tighten who can live in them, if this attitude is allowed to prevail, and I believe that is already happening in Thailand. From my own personal experience, there are some very well trained police officers and supervisory personnel in the Philippines, and many who care a lot about their country, so painting them all with a broad brush, shows just how narrow minded some of us can be, and puts us on a par with those Filipinos who paint us all with the same broad brush. For anything to happen, someone must make an effort, so the very least, one of us who knows solid evidence should do, is buy a cheap cell phone, sim card and load that cannot be easily traced to us, and wait a while, and then at the very least call every possible number you can think of to report that evidence, including action reporters, and then know that at least you tried, or you will have to live with it the rest of your life, and live with knowing you might have prevented the next time a little girl is killed.

[Mr Lee]

quoting Edmund Burke "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." -

[Markham]

Mark and others, right or wrong, to sit on real evidence is dead wrong, so to take the attitude that nothing would be done if reported is a foolish position to take IMHO, I really do not know if the police would do something or not, but if someone in power knew there was strong evidence that the police were barking up the wrong tree, just as the governor did with the last couple, then they will more than likely act. IMHO anyone who sits on real evidence is a coward and deserves the evils that will tear them up inside the rest of their lives. I would rather die than have to live with knowing that the real killers of that little girl might kill again, that is if the real killers are not already charged.

I agree but you still haven't told us the names and phone numbers to whom such could be reported. Not everyone shares your apparent trust of the authorities here so keeping a low profile is very much the order of the day for many, nay most, Expats.

And yes, my gut still tells me that a person who runs is more than likely guilty and I do not care if the system is terribly broken there, money talks in the Philippines.

Were we talking about a First World country, I'd agree with you 100%. Santos and Griffiths have, between them, four sets of lawyers and I'm quite sure that they would have been consulted. Since it is highly doubtful that the trial can get underway unless and until Griffiths is brought to Cebu - and that's not going to be any day soon - Santos would languish in jail on remand for months and very likely years. Is that what you would wish? I am quite sure that the decision to go into hiding was not an easy one for Santos and Griffiths to make, aware that presentationally it could look bad. Because no evidence of Griffiths' alleged involvement was ever sent to the Metropolitan Police and as no evidence of him committing any offence anywhere has been uncovered in the UK, any attempt to try him "in absentia" could result in a diplomatic incident which would not be in this country's best interest.

So if it were God forbid me charged, and I knew I was not guilty, then I would have hired the best PI in the Philippines or maybe an army of them, to try to get to the bottom of the crime, yet there is no evidence that in a country where money talks, that Griffiths or Santos has made any move to try to find the true killers, I wonder why.

And how do you know that they're not doing that? Just because it hasn't been reported doesn't mean that such an investigation isn't being made.

OH, Mark I am sure you will come up with another of your scenarios, but are they truly innocent in your mind, or are you just fighting the point because you like to argue or because Griffiths is British? I am an equal opportunity offender, in other words, just because someone may be an American, does not make me think they are innocent since criminals come from everywhere, no matter what their background.

It is not up to me to pronounce Griffiths innocent or guilty, that is for a jury in the UK to decide - for that's where he will be tried, if at all. From all the 300+ press articles written about this case, I have yet to read one that sparks any thought of guilt: the evidence presented thus far simply does not support the charges laid against this pair. I come from the mother country of Common Law - upon which the laws of your country are based and, thanks to your colonisation, much of the legal framework of the Philippines is based. The basic tenet of Common Law is that a man is presumed innocent until proven otherwise beyond all reasonable doubt. Cases are rarely cut and dried - this one is certainly not - and there is more than reasonable doubt in my mind that either are guilty as charged. Therefore, in my mind, they are not guilty - but whether they are innocent, only time will tell.

The truly sad part of all this is that Ellah Joy may never get justice because people take the attitude of not even trying to find out if that couple are guilty or not, or who the real killers are, and instead come up with tons of excuses. Very sad indeed.

On that we both agree. Mark PS: Apologies to Tom - I used another Latin expression! :bash: Edited August 27, 2011 by Markham

[Markham]

After reading some posts and thinking that possibly a lot of peoples attitudes might be to not even try to help to find the real killer, if they do not already have them, then it has come to my mind that many people seem to have a very low opinion of all Filipinos and are putting them all in one box. During my years of going back and forth to the Philippines and living there part time, I have done my best to get to know Filipinos who give a damn about their country, and to avoid those who do not. To say that all police are incompetent, or put them all in one category, just because one or more screw up, is a very sad state of affairs, and more or less what is starting to happen where many Filipinos are starting to put us all into one category, because of the bad ones who happen to hide in their country and eventually get caught. Countries will begin to tighten who can live in them, if this attitude is allowed to prevail, and I believe that is already happening in Thailand.

That's all very well and good but ordinary Filipinos I've spoken with over the last four years of residency in their country all have little faith in either their law enforcement or their Justice System. It has been said to me, on several different occasions, that the only reason the authorities are expending so much effort on this case is because of "the foreigner". If there was no indication that a foreigner was involved, this case would likely be uninvestigated. As a slight aside, you should read this story from ABS-CBN News which reports on the leak of a cable sent from the American Embassy in Manila by Deputy Chief of Mission Joseph A. Mussomeli to the State Department in Washington (a Wikileak). Although the cable was dated April 4, 2005, most of what it says has been confirmed as an accurate reflection as to the state of the PNP right now by my uncle-in-law, a former PNP SOCO Officer.

Mussomeli cited a Transparency International report that tagged the PNP as the most corrupt national institution in the Philippines. "However, PNP corruption is exacerbated by Philippine law, which gives local officials control over the appointment and dismissal of local PNP commanders, encouraging corrupt city mayors to make common cause with dishonest police commanders," it explained. It added that aside from corruption, "many cops undertake investigative short cuts that often employ physical abuse, the planting of evidence, and sometimes -- allegedly under guidance from local elected officials -- the extra-judicial killing of criminal suspects." "The PNP suffers from a potent combination of malfeasance (misconduct or wrongdoing) and misfeasance (improper and unlawful execution of an act that in itself is lawful and proper) within an institutional culture of poor management," the cable said.

For anything to happen, someone must make an effort, so the very least, one of us who knows solid evidence should do, is buy a cheap cell phone, sim card and load that cannot be easily traced to us, and wait a while, and then at the very least call every possible number you can think of to report that evidence, including action reporters, and then know that at least you tried, or you will have to live with it the rest of your life, and live with knowing you might have prevented the next time a little girl is killed.

So you keep saying but unless you live in Davao and know you can phone the Police by dialing 911, who exactly do you call in Cebu? Mark Edited August 27, 2011 by Markham