brock Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 I know this for a FACT..If you have information on a crime that has been commited and inform the police, They will NOT act on it unless you give a signed sworn statement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hounddriver Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 I know this for a FACT..If you have information on a crime that has been commited and inform the police, They will NOT act on it unless you give a signed sworn statement. I also know for a FACT that, if the police have NO evidence on a crime that has been committed and the police believe they have the right guy in jail, the very likely WILL ask you to come identify him, even asking for a signed sworn statement, KNOWING you have no first hand knowledge (they need eye witnesses bad enough to manufacture them) And there is no way in hell I am going to go out on a limb and testify that I was ever asked to perjure myself, you'll just have to speculate on that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garpo Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 IMHO anyone who sits on real evidence is a coward So, if its such a good thing, why do the following words have such a negative connotation in English speaking societies: Whistle Blower, Rat, Squealer, Tattletale . . etc Don't confuse somebody that reports something that they know or suspect with somebody that is involved and just as quilty as the person that they Rat or Squeal on. The Rat, Squealer, etc. etc. are not liked because they provide information on others just to save their own ass, while often times being just as guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garpo Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 Seems like we have now turned somebody that might just have information on a murder into an eyewitness. Somebody that just has information is not even close to somebody that is an eyewitness. If somebody has information that they are affaid to report or provide then they, like everybody else has the option of obtaining an attorney to provide the information to the police. The lawyer is bound by attorney client rules and can not provide the name of the client without permission. This too is a FACT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) Let us suppose for one minute that I had solid physical evidence, including forensic that as a witness,would prove beyond any doubt that the suspect is guilty. Would I be willing to testify in any court ofthe Philippines? Does the suspect have any rights to face the accuser (me)? Just read all the guiltyparties turned state witness to save their own butts. Would they be sleeping peacefully knowing thattheir life and property might be in serious jeopardy? As you may know, many serious crimes arecommitted by soldiers, PNP and well connected people. Lawyer to client confidentiality and witnessprotection can be bought and sold by either party. Rather than trusting the law of the land, the law of the jungle prevails: see definition of "salvaging". Bottom line -- I would certainly testify but get the hell out of dodge ASAP. Respectfully -- Jake Edited August 29, 2011 by Jake Korrect my Englesh agin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garpo Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 My question to myself and others is, what if Ellah Joy Pique was your daughter? What would you want and demand from anybody that might have information that could lead to the answers to what happened to your daughter? We are not talking about providing information or testifying against Jimmy Hoffa or the mob here. We all seem to want the justice system to work but fall short of doing our part.I put my life on the line while in the military to fight for a country that I did not always agree with in their reasons for fighting. I would have no problem taking the witness stand against somebody that has murdered a child. Doing so could very well save the life of a another child. Maybe yours! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hounddriver Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 My question to myself and others is, what if Ellah Joy Pique was your daughter? The problem with that question is: What if you believe the father knows who did it but is unwilling to point the finger? Then we have the case where we speculate on who will get the blame. My personal perspective is that the guilty person will never face justice in this country. The task then becomes keeping potential scapegoats out of jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garpo Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 My question to myself and others is, what if Ellah Joy Pique was your daughter? The problem with that question is: What if you believe the father knows who did it but is unwilling to point the finger? Then we have the case where we speculate on who will get the blame. My personal perspective is that the guilty person will never face justice in this country. The task then becomes keeping potential scapegoats out of jail. It is this type of attitude that makes it so hard for the justice system to work. Not only in the Philippines but in any country. Lets all just talk hard and loud about evrything that is wrong. Some would rather try to do their best to help makes things right. In my opinion, it is not about judging the system or even judging the accused. It is simply a matter of doing the right thing. Just one or even a few doing the right thing to make a criminal justice system work is not enough. It takes almost everybody and there will always be some and I hope just a few that will refuse so the system will never be perfect. Anybody that knows anything about the murder of children know that it is in fact often the father, mother, or somebody close to the victim that commits the crime. It might very well be the father that was involved in this, does that mean that he should get away with it because everybody is affaid to come forward with any infomation that they might have? I am not aware of a single case where a witness or even potential witness has ever been hurt because they came forward with information on a child homicide case. I guess we can all sit back and guess who did or did not do this and talk crap about the poor system they have here in the Philippines, but I would hope that there are some folks that do have information will provide that information so that guilt or inocense can be dertermined in a court of law. Not by those that never hear the facts and base their opinion on news articles, hearsay, and just plan all guess work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markham Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 Let us suppose for one minute that I had solid physical evidence, including forensic that as a witness,would prove beyond any doubt that the suspect is guilty. Would I be willing to testify in any court ofthe Philippines? Does the suspect have any rights to face the accuser (me)? Just read all the guiltyparties turned state witness to save their own butts. Would they be sleeping peacefully knowing thattheir life and property might be in serious jeopardy? As you may know, many serious crimes arecommitted by soldiers, PNP and well connected people. Lawyer to client confidentiality and witnessprotection can be bought and sold by either party. Rather than trusting the law of the land, the law of the jungle prevails: see definition of "salvaging". Bottom line -- I would certainly testify but get the hell out of dodge ASAP. Respectfully -- Jake Yes he does: the 1987 Philippine Constitution specifically provides for this. In some cases witnesses disappear, or die, before they can give evidence in court in this country. And if a (prosecution) witness fails to attend court on the due date, the trial is (often) postponed to another date in the future. In my view that tips the scales of justice in favour of the prosecution - if a witness fails to show up at a court in the UK, the prosecution (or defence, if it's their witness) must proceed as best it can. However the errant witness can be arrested and charged with Contempt of Court. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markham Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 What some fail to appreciate is that the whole criminal justice system here is somewhat different to what we're used to in our own countries. In the Ellah Joy case, once the Police had Berger and Esdrelon in custody, the investigation into "who did it" was shut-down and the Police focussed on gathering evidence against the pair. The whole Police case against this pair amounted to no more than three witness statements and although they did get a list of black SUVs registered on Cebu, no effort appears to have been made to trace the owners. It wasn't until the Provincial Prosecutors found that there was an insufficiency of evidence against them, did the Police start looking for another potential suspect. Even if a witness comes forward - either directly to the Police or Prosecutors or indirectly through the defence lawyers - will that evidence be even considered by the Police and Prosecution team? After all, they have already charged Griffiths and Santos so what incentive do they have to investigate what they may well consider to be a "diversion"? Lee's advice may be valid in the cases of unsolved crimes - where the Police do not already hold or have charged one or more suspects. But if you want the Police to act on that information, the reporter will almost certainly have to provide a sworn statement and be willing to testify in court. In the Philippines, the accused has the Constitutional right to be faced by his accusers and to question them. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts